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Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

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Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#631

Post by crackinmalackin »

SauciestGNU wrote: post #409
crackinmalackin wrote: post #327

I'm in between jobs at the moment and a lot of people here are commenting with some very reasonable hiring practices that I actually haven't seen out in the wild yet. From what I'm seeing, the take home assignment process is getting out of control. The take home assignment process seems to vary wildly between different companies. One place wanted me to complete a take home assignment that was estimated to take betwee…

I just came out of the job hunt, and I disagree about preferring take-home tests to leetcode. I much prefer the timeboxed leetcode scenarios to a project with no defined end aside from the specifications. The expectations for the takehome never seem chasee to me. I might solve the exercise in 4 hours, but how do I know the other candidates aren't pouring days into the exercise? Leetcode with a time constraint allows…

People grind leetcode problems for weeks or months ahead of time though.

Most take assignments are throwaway code, but once in a while they are things you can add to a portfolio and expand on. Also if you finish and need to reaapply to another position you’re already done.

Definitely a time consuming practice, but i like knowing what I’m getting into versus the mystery of leetcode. Short and sweet is the key though. Someone else mentioned live pair coding on some revelant feature , I think those are ideal

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#632

Post by hackyhacky »

ls15 wrote: post #626
hackyhacky wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who teaches CS at a reputable university, I can state with certainty that we graduate a lot of students who have no clue how to code. As someone who used to do hiring for a small company, I can state that a lot of people who have degrees have no clue how to code. Until our field gets the equivalent of a bar exam or NBME, each employer has to evaluate candidates on their own.

CS != coding, but CS combined with coding practice is an excellent basis. Now, how many of those graduates that managed to work in a software development job afterwards can still not code a couple of years later?

I never claimed that CS == coding, nor did I claim that CS graduates can't learn to code. All that I said is that a CS degree alone is not a sufficient substitute for screening, in counter to the grandparent comment.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#633

Post by eric4smith »

I would bet that people flake after the 30 minute call. And not the take-home technical assignment.

Hiring these days is incredibly difficult. People genuinely do not really want to work anymore. I don't mean this in a bad way, but people are just more interested in their personal life instead of working for someone else.

Especially senior people.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#634

Post by Simon_O_Rourke »

dominotw wrote: post #355
Simon_O_Rourke wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. Completely agree here - like a fool I recently went through an entire day's worth interviews for a role (hello Stripe recruiters!!) that required both me and my wife taking PTO, with her looking after the kids while I talked to one junior dev after another abo…

> like a fool I recently went through an entire day's worth interviews for a role whats the alternative though. why do you consider that foolish?

In my case I didn't do a satisfactory initial call with the recruiters to ask them what the interview was going to be about, the level of the folks asking the questions and the possibility of doing it over a few days. They pulled the "we're excited to move forward..." trick, without saying too much about having to talk for 6 hours to very junior devs.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#635

Post by ornornor »

scarface74 wrote: post #567
lelanthran wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As something of a counterpoint, a literal 4-hour assignment isn't that bad--especially as an alternative to a day of interviews. As a counter counterpoint, that only makes sense if the candidate is applying to a single place. If the candidate has lined up 4 interviews, they're not going to get 16 hours in the week to complete them. The fifth place that has no 4 hour interviews will get the candidate.

The last time I was actively looking for a job (instead of being recruited via my network), was in 2016. Looking at my spreadsheet, I was somewhere in the process of interviewing (phone screen -> in person -> waiting for an offer) for 15 different companies. Why would I ever have jumped through hoops if they were all paying about the same. I took the first one that met my compensation/technology/commute requirements.…

> Back then, one Enterprise CRUD job looked like any other.

They still do.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#636

Post by talonx »

ghaff wrote: post #178
Simon_O_Rourke wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. Completely agree here - like a fool I recently went through an entire day's worth interviews for a role (hello Stripe recruiters!!) that required both me and my wife taking PTO, with her looking after the kids while I talked to one junior dev after another abo…

As something of a counterpoint, a literal 4-hour assignment isn't that bad--especially as an alternative to a day of interviews. If they give you the assignment and it's immediately obvious that it's actually a 20+ hour assignment, you can always just walk. When I worked for a technology analyst company, we would ask for writing samples--which most potential hires would already have. But, if someone didn't, they'd ha…

> As something of a counterpoint, a literal 4-hour assignment isn't that bad--especially as an alternative to a day of interviews.

An assignment is no replacement for a face to face interview.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#637

Post by adastra22 »

Silhouette wrote: post #291
RangerScience wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I might (for non-network referrals) respond with "my hourly rate is $XX". Has anyone done this? Has it worked? PS - I also try to add on a 30m review of /their/ code, but so far it hasn't worked. I still ask!

Snarky responses in interview processes like quoting an hourly rate might seem attractive but I urge you to avoid them. The best case is probably that it immediately ends the process but you get a moment's satisfaction. However you could easily be seen as unprofessional and that damage to your reputation could come back to bite you later when you're applying for something you really do want. If someone is asking too…

Unprofessional? You are offering very bad advice. If your work is worth that much, don’t give it out for free to people who don’t recognize it.

PS: my rate for 4 hours work is $2500. Companies HAVE taken me up on this rate. In fact I am currently declining work because I haven’t the time. Know your worth!

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#638

Post by edf13 »

Where are you posting your ad?

Lack of salary will put off a % of browsers who are unsure if they want a move… you need to either add package or try and make it clear in the text it’s good.

The interview schedule looks fine to me - but I don’t have super young children (maybe I’m more senior than I realise!)

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