Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

news.ycombinator.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

621–630 of 794 posts

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#621

Post by mianos »

higeorge13 wrote: post #31
corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

Not to mention that usually the required time for take-home assignment is 2-3x the advertised one.

I think this is part of the process to ridicule candidates.

Maybe interviewers are cynical after interviewing so many really bad candidates and the only enjoyment they get from the process is the ability to look down on them.

I have done a few of these take home assignments, later to be engaged by the firm, then to discover in a firm of 100 people, I only really met one or two who could even do the assignment, let alone do it in under an hour.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#622

Post by crummy »

peterkelly wrote: post #524
pnathan wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Conversations allow smooth talkers to run a snow job on you. Having a work sample test provides a best-in-class hiring filter.

Not if you ask the right questions

What kind of questions would you ask?

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#623

Post by 4ndrewl »

anon291 wrote: post #139
corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

The thing with 4hr technical assignments is that you're saying no to anyone with kids, which I'm going to venture applies to more senior people than juniors. I used to do these assignment. Now I simply don't sorry. My schedule is 6:30 AM wake up with youngest daughter, to let wife sleep in (she takes care of her all night) 9:00 AM hand off youngest daughter to wife, who takes both girls the rest of the day. I go to m…

All of the above, also

I've hired seniors - you'd be much better off replacing the 4+1 hour assignment with a 1 hour AMA or discussion about a project or ticket with the team they'd be working with and getting their feedback. Would they be able to work together?

Also, just post the salary!!! Seniors naturally will have made a wider range of life choices and will have a larger range of minimum salary they need to fund their lifestyle. Not posting it appears as if you're hiding something, which isn't a great starting point.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#624

Post by misja111 »

I would never do a 4h home assignment if I didn't have any clue yet about the salary. And I guess most senior developers think the same. Why risk wasting so much time? I would even suspect that you had good reason not to mention your salary until the end, probably it wouldn't be very good.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#625

Post by JanSt »

In a hot job market (yes, recession may hit now) you maybe need to turn your process around.

Why are you a good employer for the candidate? Also, post the salary. I'm not going to start a 10+ hour process unless I'm sure it is worth it

Your process gives me no reason to work for you because I get to know nothing about you.

A call with a recruiter? Gonna hear all the standard phrases and have to answer basic questions.

A call with hiring manager? I still don't know anything about my future coworkers / team.

A 4h technical assignment? Why would I want to do this (unless I really need a job) after getting to know nothing about you? Why would I want to even work for you?

Companies often operate from a point of view of the candidate being the one who has to show they are worth it. For many senior candidates that's not going to cut it.

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#626

Post by ls15 »

hackyhacky wrote: post #617
ls15 wrote: post #614

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shouldn't a CS degree from a reputable university then just replace all the screening that is made for people without relevant degrees?

As someone who teaches CS at a reputable university, I can state with certainty that we graduate a lot of students who have no clue how to code. As someone who used to do hiring for a small company, I can state that a lot of people who have degrees have no clue how to code. Until our field gets the equivalent of a bar exam or NBME, each employer has to evaluate candidates on their own.

CS != coding, but CS combined with coding practice is an excellent basis. Now, how many of those graduates that managed to work in a software development job afterwards can still not code a couple of years later?

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#627

Post by cycomanic »

jgaa wrote: post #613
corrral wrote: post #21

> Take-home technical assignment (~4h) or similar at candidate's choosing If I can get a similarly-paying job at a place that doesn't do this, I'll skip you. Many seniors ( actual seniors, not 3-years-of-experience seniors) have a network and can say "hey I'm looking" and instantly have multiple options that won't have them do more than talk to the team and manager for an hour or two. If that.

Offering someone you don't know a senior position without some kind of insight into their level of competence is just a lottery. I've screened a number of very senior developers with impressive CV's applying for senior C++ positions. When I look at their code, usually it just sucks. More often than not it's just plain old C code with C++ dressing. For example, using pthreads in stead of C++11 std::thread, and mostly…

> Offering someone you don't know a senior position without some kind of insight into their level of competence is just a lottery.

So what do you think the rest of the world does? Mechanical, civil, electrical engineering, lawyers, doctors, HR, managers? What makes software so special?

Re: Ask HN: Having trouble getting senior applicants, wondering what to do about it

#629

Post by bredren »

yieldcrv wrote: post #475
PragmaticPulp wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Take-homes we’re greatly preferred by our candidates with families because they could be done on a weekend or in their spare time. I’m also a parent of small kids with a busy schedule. Despite the packed schedule and demands of raising kids, it would be a huge exaggeration to suggest that I couldn’t find 4 hours of time to do a take-home if given a week of time (as is common). The parent commenter might have…

Alright, and if you are actively interviewing and trying to get offers lined up at the same time? while also continuing to study some system design concepts and algorithm brainteasers? Its not a one 4 hour take home project. Its the fifth one.

Also, is this a good week or a bad week for the kids. Cause if someone is sick or teething, well it’s not the same as any other week.
Post reply on HN