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We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

mullvad.net

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Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#241

Post by [deleted] »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #74
ezfe wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, yes and no. For most people, they're over-rated. You don't even need a VPN to securely pay your credit card bill on public Wi-Fi. However, there are two cases where they are useful: - IP address hiding (something like iCloud Private Relay for iOS/Mac users does this at the browser level, VPN brings it to the entire system) - Legal protections - Location simulation If you want to hide your IP address, this could…

You forgot the most important use case, unless you're talking about Europeans and USians only. I use a VPN simply because half the internet doesn't work without it (some guy in a suit decided what you can and cannot read, and there's nothing you can do about it). Free tiers provided by various "cloud" services work fine for this one (Oracle is the most generous among them).

[deleted]

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#242

Post by UberFly »

sdfhdhjdw3 wrote: post #118
rglover wrote: post #27

Wow. Hadn't heard of Mullvad before reading this, figured I'd give it a try. That is hands down the BEST onboarding experience for an app (let alone a VPN) I've had in I don't know how long. Took me maybe 2 minutes to go from no account to a working VPN connection. I love that everything is anonymous (down to the account credentials just being a randomly generated token).

> Hadn't heard of Mullvad before reading this Just the only vpn with any integrity left remaining, no biggie.

Your blanket statement isn't true. OVPN for instance has gone to court to protect its data: https://www.ovpn.com/en/blog/ovpn-wins-court-order

They are a very good alternative among others.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#243

Post by charles_f »

onelovetwo wrote: post #236
charles_f wrote: post #9

> convenience comes at a cost and we no longer think this is an acceptable trade-off. In an age where dissertations about what color and position to use for buttons go pages long, that's a courageous position that follows a clear strategy. Kudos!

I think its also good for Mullvad, they push people towards the 1y plan instead. No one is going to put their payment info in every single month.

They only have a monthly pricing option I believe

https://mullvad.net/en/pricing/

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#244

Post by AnssiH »

hunter2_ wrote: post #231
usr1106 wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Banking is highly national. It does not even work very uniformily in SEPA (Single European Payment Area). Of course there are mandatory SEPA features that every bank in every country must support. But there are other national features which are used in some countries by practically all businesses basically making everything incompatible again. And of course there are many countries completely outside of SEPA.

I'm in the US and I'm not familiar with banking elsewhere, but the "bill pay" feature I'm talking about will try some electronic system first, and if the recipient doesn't support it, the bank simply mails a check. The recipient could be as small/offline as any person at a residential address. I assume writing a check and mailing it is a fairly typical thing everywhere, and having the bank do this on a repeating sche…

> I assume writing a check and mailing it is a fairly typical thing everywhere

It absolutely is not. The only time I've seen a check was a gift from my grandfather in the 00s, and I don't think paying bills by mailing checks was ever a thing here.

Checks also often become very difficult and expensive to cash when going cross-border. E.g. most banks here (Finland) refuse to cash foreign checks altogether.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#245

Post by mderazon »

anonporridge wrote: post #221
rglover wrote: post #27

Wow. Hadn't heard of Mullvad before reading this, figured I'd give it a try. That is hands down the BEST onboarding experience for an app (let alone a VPN) I've had in I don't know how long. Took me maybe 2 minutes to go from no account to a working VPN connection. I love that everything is anonymous (down to the account credentials just being a randomly generated token).

You can also easily pay with better anonymity with the Strike app, https://strike.me , which abstracts bitcoin mainnet and lightning network payments behind USD, so you don't have to worry about actually holding bitcoin or managing tax implications. You just use bitcoin as a globally agnostic payment rail, masked with your local fiat, so the price volatility doesn't affect you. Mullvad even gives you a 10% discount f…

"Global payments for the internet"

I was intrigued...

Then

"currently the Strike app is only available in the United States*, El Salvador, and Argentina"

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#246

Post by wpietri »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #133
meltedcapacitor wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these benefits not eroding? Pressure on subscription models comes from both the public getting herd immunity against the underlying dark pattern and competitors chasing a diminishing supply of people to trick as world + dog has adopted the tactic. In this particular case, with a privacy tailwind, it will be unsurprising if it ends up increasing their sales.

I think saying subscriptions are a dark pattern is going a bit far. In the case where you're offering an ongoing service that requires a cost to service, a subscription model is completely appropriate and in the best interest of both the subscriber and the issuer. For sure there's some abuse of the model where you're selling something that should be a one-time item, but that's not the case here, and Mullvad is provid…

I'd be willing to say that subscriptions are a dark pattern when they don't automatically stop if you stop using them.

A fundamental part of healthy business relationships is value for value. E.g., you give me money, I give you a sandwich, you take the sandwich, eat it, and are happy with it. If you keep paying me for sandwiches but I don't give them to you, that's not healthy. Ditto if I put them on the counter but you stop taking them.

Personally, I think there should be a law that all service/software subscriptions auto-suspend after 30 days of non-use. Because right now there's a big incentive for businesses to get you to sign up for things they think you're not going to use, and to keep on charging you even though they know you're not using it.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#247

Post by runnerup »

rafale wrote: post #211
banana_giraffe wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be aware, at least Nord clearly does something different with their client than with the OpenVPN files they provide ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=21664692 ). When I dug into this, I found similar cases with other major VPN providers, but my notes are sufficiently out of date, they shouldn't be trusted anymore. Sometimes the differences are subtle, sometimes they're rather complex like this case. Personally,…

What cloud do you use? A lot of websites will flag any AWS or data center IP as a bot.

I use whatbox.ca as my global/universal VPN. So far I haven’t seen any issues. It works in places where most VPNs are banned or heavily throttled (like Saudi/Abu Dhabi/Qatar, my workplace, AT&T cellular data, etc)

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#248

Post by colonwqbang »

ouid wrote: post #200
colonwqbang wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In which state is it legal to lie about the service you are delivering? I.e. in your marketing say that you will deliver something and then instead deliver something less valuable.

Its possible you dont know what state means. But the US has plenty of mass warrants that require companies to keep logs even in the presence of promises that they dont. In fact, they are obligated not to reveal that they are now keeping logs. Warrants supercede contract.

Even in the US I think you can't advertise a service that you are not legally allowed to provide. Does the first warrant make you immune to fraud allegations?

I'm not an expert and am ready to accept that I may be wrong. If you know any sources on the matter, it would be interesting to read.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#249

Post by dcow »

Barrin92 wrote: post #225
dcow wrote: post #116

Why are VPNs what people flock to when they think they want privacy? Moreover they kinda break the internet so it's not a scalable solution. It's cool to see a good one selling a privacy message and doing it at level 11, but it seems kinda disingenuous to me to tell users that they're more private because they use a VPN. Private from your current ISP, sure, but not from Mullvad (they're your new ISP, you're just movi…

>Private from your current ISP, sure, but not from Mullvad being private from your local ISP is what 99% of people care about because they use VPNs to send copyright infringement claims to /dev/null and watch netflix, not to smuggle nuclear secrets to Iran. It's privacy in a practical sense that's useful to people. If I go from an untrustworthy ISP to a trustworthy one I've gained privacy, there's no need to be overl…

I'm not really trying to be pedantic for giggles.. perhaps I just think it's sad that 99% of ISPs are considered your privacy enemy and on top of that I don't consider VPNs a scalable solution to the problem at large so I'm more entertaining the "why is this the de facto solution" question in the "does it scale to society" solution space. It starts to look more like a social problem/solution than a technology problem/solution. That's more what this is about. If everyone used a VPN we'd really be in the same scenario we are today because to support that infrastructure you'd need exit nodes in every city and boom there goes your location advantage.
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