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We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

mullvad.net

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Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#191

Post by 3wolf »

ryanbrunner wrote: post #133
meltedcapacitor wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are these benefits not eroding? Pressure on subscription models comes from both the public getting herd immunity against the underlying dark pattern and competitors chasing a diminishing supply of people to trick as world + dog has adopted the tactic. In this particular case, with a privacy tailwind, it will be unsurprising if it ends up increasing their sales.

I think saying subscriptions are a dark pattern is going a bit far. In the case where you're offering an ongoing service that requires a cost to service, a subscription model is completely appropriate and in the best interest of both the subscriber and the issuer. For sure there's some abuse of the model where you're selling something that should be a one-time item, but that's not the case here, and Mullvad is provid…

Yeah, I'd say the term dark pattern only applies when services make it unnecessarily difficult to cancel your subscription. cough cough...NY Times

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#192

Post by xipho »

Is it me (likely), or are a huge range of comments here exactly what you'd expect from a company anticipating blow-back based on their changes? I mean it could really be that good, but this feels a little too clean. I.e. are there shill posters here? I suppose someone could look at all the users who posted, get their karma, and created on dates, and build some estimation calculation. Probably could be greatly improved by adding factor such as wether the user has posted recently in other threads, whether potential shills are responding to parent shills, etc. Arms race ...

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#193

Post by colonwqbang »

ouid wrote: post #190

This is PR and the comments are astroturfed to absolute hell. VPN is the most heavily advertised business I am aware of. There are a lot of reasons to mistrust this behavior. 1) it doesn't cost mullvad very much to not autorenew subscriptions. People dont forget to renew their subscriptions to a service that breaks your connection to youtube when you forget to pay. It's closer to the world of warcraft model. 2) Custo…

In which state is it legal to lie about the service you are delivering? I.e. in your marketing say that you will deliver something and then instead deliver something less valuable.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#194

Post by ouid »

skeeter2020 wrote: post #7

If you're familiar with the sizeable benefits of the subscription model for a business you'll recognize this is a big deal.

absolutely not. people are wary of signing up for new subscriptions, because cancellation is not clearly protected in most jurisdictions, and people are aware that they can forget to cancel.

People dont forget to renew their world of warcraft membership because their game stops working if they do. if you use a VPN, you likely use it every day, and there will be no lost revenue.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#195

Post by sixhobbits »

xipho wrote: post #192

Is it me (likely), or are a huge range of comments here exactly what you'd expect from a company anticipating blow-back based on their changes? I mean it could really be that good, but this feels a little too clean. I.e. are there shill posters here? I suppose someone could look at all the users who posted, get their karma, and created on dates, and build some estimation calculation. Probably could be greatly improve…

"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data."

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#196

Post by sixhobbits »

ouid wrote: post #190

This is PR and the comments are astroturfed to absolute hell. VPN is the most heavily advertised business I am aware of. There are a lot of reasons to mistrust this behavior. 1) it doesn't cost mullvad very much to not autorenew subscriptions. People dont forget to renew their subscriptions to a service that breaks your connection to youtube when you forget to pay. It's closer to the world of warcraft model. 2) Custo…

"Please don't post insinuations about astroturfing, shilling, bots, brigading, foreign agents and the like. It degrades discussion and is usually mistaken. If you're worried about abuse, email hn@ycombinator.com and we'll look at the data. "

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#197

Post by throwaway287391 »

ouid wrote: post #190

This is PR and the comments are astroturfed to absolute hell. VPN is the most heavily advertised business I am aware of. There are a lot of reasons to mistrust this behavior. 1) it doesn't cost mullvad very much to not autorenew subscriptions. People dont forget to renew their subscriptions to a service that breaks your connection to youtube when you forget to pay. It's closer to the world of warcraft model. 2) Custo…

> it doesn't cost mullvad very much to not autorenew subscriptions. People dont forget to renew their subscriptions to a service that breaks your connection to youtube when you forget to pay. It's closer to the world of warcraft model.

I might be in a tiny minority of users (genuinely not sure) but I only enable my VPN when I want to get around IP geolocation (e.g. to stream something only available in another country) and otherwise turn it off when I'm done to minimize latency. I sometimes go a week or two without using it so I could easily not notice at least for days if my subscription didn't autorenew.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#198

Post by GekkePrutser »

dcow wrote: post #163
GekkePrutser wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just one of the many layers of good opsec of you care about privacy. You shouldn't rely on this alone. And breaking the internet? I think centralisation by parties like Amazon, Google, CloudFlare does that a lot more. And if you want you can even send them cash in an envelope. Or monero or whatever.

I don't disagree that centralized services are also bad for the internet, but that's not a rebuttal to my point (also, what is a VPN service if not a "centralized ISP with different egress options"). A VPN does not add a layer of privacy. That's a misunderstanding of the concept and unfortunately a popular one even among security folks and even more-so among security marketing folks. A VPN allows you to effectively c…

I agree that it's but a single tool in a complex mesh of procedures to provide some privacy.

But the reality is that it does work for a variety of usecases. Try to torrent in Germany (of all places) and you'll get blackmail letters from random lawyers. Do this with a VPN and no problem.

For this scenario it's the tool for the job. If you're an insurgent trying to liberate Iran it's not.

For general surfing privacy it doesn't add much value at all because most of the identifying information is in the session itself, not the IP. This is where the layered approach comes in.

But I definitely see a value in these services.

And they do offer many anonymous payment options, but some are heavily frowned upon in some regions (eg anonymous crypto in India) and mailing bills is inconvenient and risky. And I guess for some people it's worth the tradeoff.

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#199

Post by Anunayj »

criddell wrote: post #57
kombucha13 wrote: post #2

Very interesting. Mullvad seems to be the most extreme and reputable VPN service out there when it comes to privacy. At least it seems that way.

A VPN will hide you from your ISP, but that's about it, isn't it? Does a VPN really provide that much real privacy?

and let me access sites blocked by my country/ISP!

Re: We are removing the option to create new subscriptions

#200

Post by ouid »

colonwqbang wrote: post #193
ouid wrote: post #190

This is PR and the comments are astroturfed to absolute hell. VPN is the most heavily advertised business I am aware of. There are a lot of reasons to mistrust this behavior. 1) it doesn't cost mullvad very much to not autorenew subscriptions. People dont forget to renew their subscriptions to a service that breaks your connection to youtube when you forget to pay. It's closer to the world of warcraft model. 2) Custo…

In which state is it legal to lie about the service you are delivering? I.e. in your marketing say that you will deliver something and then instead deliver something less valuable.

Its possible you dont know what state means. But the US has plenty of mass warrants that require companies to keep logs even in the presence of promises that they dont. In fact, they are obligated not to reveal that they are now keeping logs. Warrants supercede contract.
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