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Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

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Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#61

Post by strongpigeon »

bko wrote: post #43
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

If I understand it correctly, LVT would allow people to state what they think their property is worth and pay taxes accordingly. They could put down any value but anyone could buy it from them at that value. And this is supposed to be good? Forget politics, who thinks its a good idea to force people into economic transactions? I could see a whole new line of blackmail, akin to patent trolls, looking for people who un…

I’m not sure why LVT would be assessed this way? I’m pretty sure the idea would be to keep the same assessment mechanisms, but tax only land, not improvements.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#62

Post by ethanbond »

bko wrote: post #43
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

If I understand it correctly, LVT would allow people to state what they think their property is worth and pay taxes accordingly. They could put down any value but anyone could buy it from them at that value. And this is supposed to be good? Forget politics, who thinks its a good idea to force people into economic transactions? I could see a whole new line of blackmail, akin to patent trolls, looking for people who un…

This is not what LVT is. This is one potential mechanism to find the price of assets so they can be taxed.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#63

Post by strongpigeon »

doktorhladnjak wrote: post #58
strongpigeon wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One way to solve the issue of people being taxed out of their property would be to give the option to put a lien on the property if they’re earning less than a certain income (or over a certain age). This way, the owner gets to stay in their home, but the city is (eventually) getting the taxes it’s owed. I haven’t fully thought through all the incentives it brings though. However, it seems like a better solution than…

This sort of approach exists in several states https://dor.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2022-02/PTDeferral_Se...

Interesting. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#64

Post by scld »

bko wrote: post #43
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

If I understand it correctly, LVT would allow people to state what they think their property is worth and pay taxes accordingly. They could put down any value but anyone could buy it from them at that value. And this is supposed to be good? Forget politics, who thinks its a good idea to force people into economic transactions? I could see a whole new line of blackmail, akin to patent trolls, looking for people who un…

You don't understand correctly. LVT is basically just property tax that doesn't assess the structure that's built on the land. So, land near a subway stop or bus terminal or downtown offices would be taxed higher as compared to land in the outskirts of town or in suburbs.

You are thinking more of something like Glen Weyl's Radical Markets proposals.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#65

Post by Wowfunhappy »

newaccount2021 wrote: post #42
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you start small? Just a minor LVT to begin with, which could potentially be raised over time. Possibly implemented by a single city instead of nationwide.

then that city would die and everything around it would flourish

Isn't the idea that a LVT would improve the use of land? If that premise is correct, it could cause the city to flourish and grow ahead of its neighbors.

Implementing the change more narrowly would allow you to test that assumption.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#66

Post by Originami »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #27
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

Could you start small? Just a minor LVT to begin with, which could potentially be raised over time. Possibly implemented by a single city instead of nationwide.

Better to just offer a 10% reduction in LVT per person (including children) living there, if at least one of the people was the owner.

A family of four would then have an inherent tax advantage against Blackrock etc. accumulating family housing.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#67

Post by colinmhayes »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #49
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

A LVT can be implemented while other taxes are reduced to make up for it. If income tax drops by X% and a LVT of Y% is implemented to, theoretically, keep the same revenues - some people will win and some will lose. The idea that all of the middle class, upper class, and wealthy will lose seems absurd. Some people seem poised for a loss - all the people living in SFH in the middle of a city where lots are worth $2M.…

The upper middle class is largely defined by having a large amount of their wealth in their single family home. They would absolutely be crushed by a LVT, since discouraging single family homes on expensive land is pretty much the whole point. Hurting the people with the most political power is not a successful political strategy.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#68

Post by doktorhladnjak »

goethes_kind wrote: post #53

The best way to fix the housing crisis, at the state/federal level is to create incentives for employers to move to less densely populated areas. But what makes it a bit more complex is that, ideally, one would, try to relocate entire technological hubs. But I do not see why it shouldn't be possible.

There are already many incentives for sprawl. It's not clear to me how encouraging more of it solves these problems.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#69

Post by zip1234 »

hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

Who said anything about a very high LVT? Where LVTs have been implemented, they phase them in and can make the taxes about the same as before. It will certainly increase taxes on people that are holding an empty lot in the center of town though.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#70

Post by dlp211 »

sudden_dystopia wrote: post #32

Disagree. We should go the other way, abolish all primary residence property taxes and replace with value added taxes. Other lands for secondary and commercial properties can still be taxed. Otherwise you are really just leasing land from the government. On a somewhat absurd tangent, I’ve been toying with the idea of something I call a “land dividend” to solve homelessness. If every US citizen had by birthright, a sm…

> If every US citizen had by birthright, a small parcel of land with no taxes owed, they would always have somewhere to go.

I'm sorry, but if you can't see the numerous problems with this high school level idea about solving homelessness, maybe housing policy isn't something you should opine about.

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