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Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

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Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#41

Post by AnimalMuppet »

gruez wrote: post #28
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

>All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers due to crushing tax increases'. Every day the evening news and social media would carry a new, tearful story of a family forced to sell their home. This seems trivially fixable by making the tax revenue neutral (ie. every additional dollar collected by the LVT is c…

1. That might help some, but it won't fix it. Wherever else taxes are cut won't be on property, therefore the "land value tax plus some other tax cuts" will work out worse for property owners. That's kind of the point. But it's also, as hash872 says, the thing that makes it politically impossible.

2. Make it revenue neutral? Who's going to do that? Some legislature somewhere? Are they actually going to do it? Or are they going to say "Yay, more money!" and find new things to spend it on?

I have zero confidence that a Georgist tax would be revenue neutral, no matter what theory says should happen, and no matter what promises are made.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#42

Post by newaccount2021 »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #27
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

Could you start small? Just a minor LVT to begin with, which could potentially be raised over time. Possibly implemented by a single city instead of nationwide.

then that city would die and everything around it would flourish

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#43

Post by bko »

hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

If I understand it correctly, LVT would allow people to state what they think their property is worth and pay taxes accordingly. They could put down any value but anyone could buy it from them at that value. And this is supposed to be good?

Forget politics, who thinks its a good idea to force people into economic transactions? I could see a whole new line of blackmail, akin to patent trolls, looking for people who under-priced their property or really don't want to move. It sounds terrible.

Any billionaire could kick you out of your home in a moments notice. Sure you get paid, but you probably don't want to move. How could you even say the property is yours? People get upset with government forces them to sell their property using eminent domain. This strikes me as a hundred times worse.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#44

Post by SllX »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #27
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

Could you start small? Just a minor LVT to begin with, which could potentially be raised over time. Possibly implemented by a single city instead of nationwide.

So, boil the middle class rather than setting them on fire? I won’t call it unprecedented.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#45

Post by strongpigeon »

hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

One way to solve the issue of people being taxed out of their property would be to give the option to put a lien on the property if they’re earning less than a certain income (or over a certain age). This way, the owner gets to stay in their home, but the city is (eventually) getting the taxes it’s owed.

I haven’t fully thought through all the incentives it brings though. However, it seems like a better solution than telling people to reverse mortgage their houses. Especially given how predatory that industry seems to be.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#46

Post by colinmhayes »

gruez wrote: post #28
hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

>All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers due to crushing tax increases'. Every day the evening news and social media would carry a new, tearful story of a family forced to sell their home. This seems trivially fixable by making the tax revenue neutral (ie. every additional dollar collected by the LVT is c…

Except there are still winners and losers. The losers would be people who live in single family homes in expensive suburbs. A.k.a. the people with the most political power. The winners would be the young who don't own and those who live in condos, A.K.A the people with the least political power.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#47

Post by anonymouse008 »

9 times out of 10 the issue with housing isn't that housing is truly in short supply - it's housing within a reasonable travel time of desired locations that is in short supply. To view the solution myopically as we must change people to allow more housing in their backyard, is only one frame - and not even the most effective one. Innovating the urban -> rural transport chain is the most challenging, but its implications are paramount.

Re: Redfin Economist says land value tax will fix the economy

#49

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

hash872 wrote: post #24

A very high LVT is a politically unserious proposition, because it would involve drastically raising taxes on the people who actually vote & hold political power in society- the middle class, upper middle class, and wealthy in suburbs and low-density urban areas. All of the alleged 'efficiency' gains you hear Georgists claim really mean 'middle class homeowners forced to sell their single family home to developers du…

A LVT can be implemented while other taxes are reduced to make up for it.

If income tax drops by X% and a LVT of Y% is implemented to, theoretically, keep the same revenues - some people will win and some will lose.

The idea that all of the middle class, upper class, and wealthy will lose seems absurd.

Some people seem poised for a loss - all the people living in SFH in the middle of a city where lots are worth $2M. All the parking lot operators, etc. And that's kind of the point...

Perversely, it's easy to imagine a poorly implemented LVT that incentives the opposite of what proponents want - it reduces overall tax burdens on suburbs because the "land" is less valuable than the cut land - driving people to leave the city and live in the suburbs.

It all comes down to implementation. Blanket statements seem out of touch

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