Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

> If you have water, you can produce plants.

Simply untrue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antarctica

> What land specifically is useful for animals, but not capturing carbon or growing plants? Please give a specific example.

Careful moving those goal posts, you'll hurt your back. Not a goal anybody set. But here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangeland

Animal farming improved human use of land, and indeed crop farming depends a lot on animal byproducts. Or do you prefer unsustainable mineral fertilizers?

I've been a meat eater 40+ years. I wrote that at least B12 supplementation is necessary, you want to ignore that. Maybe I was not clear enough, but then, English is not my first language.

> I didn't reply to this

I've just tried to extract the core of my position, and of yours. Sorry if I was not clear enough (I don't like to spend my time in discussions, so I'm maybe too hasty in formulating my comments).

> Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements).

Does it mean you don't need to supplement? Doesn't it mean you may eat only plant-based diet, with B12 supplementation, and then be healthy? Maybe my english is worse than i thought.

> You have no interest in a curious and intelligent conversation. All you want is to propagandise your vegan ideology.

If there is any propaganda, it's of meat & dairy industry. Any connection, cheese queen?

> "Most vegans" ... risk heart disease, stroke and pregnancy complications! "Most vegans". Most! Because they don't get enough B12!

Hence the supplementation. Me & my wife have been supplementing from the start, several years now, and take regular blood tests. No problems what so ever. My doctor quipped that he've never seen such optimal blood test as mine is (all values in the optimal range).

> Well, why do you need supplements when your diet is healthy?

Because B12 in the meat is from earth bacteria (ideally, or from vitamins the animals are fed). We wash our food, animals don't. But we can rely on our marvelous production capabilities, and produce required supplements from vegan, non-animal sources, directly for human population.

With veganism on the rise there is more and more fortified foods available, so I suppose it will be less and less problem in the future.

> Because plants are not enough. You need a balanced diet to stay healthy and if you cut meat and animal products from your diet your are putting your health at risk.

No, you are not putting your health at risk. There is where my beef with your position is.

Western diet is linked to a lot of health problems. A lot of those problems is linked to meat/dairy intake. For example, milk/cheese is linked to alzheimer/parkinson, meat is full of herbicides/pesticides/omega-6, eggs are full of cholesterol ... you're deliberaly ignoring that with B12 supplementation a plant based diet is healthier.

> Irresponsible, dishonest, fanatical liars.

You seem very angry, determined in your ways, and nitpicky. I dont' have time to discuss this further with you. Have a nice day!

Cows over those millions of years didn’t have their populations artificially increased beyond sustainable levels for human consumption. The current system of animal agriculture isn’t good for the environment. We don’t have more land to make it sustainable. That’s why “hippy scientists” are trying to find alternatives.

> keep it in a climate controlled area

Try scaling that to 1km^2 and come back to me.

And that's not even accounting for making modifications or algae husbandry to try to improve yields, which will cripple your algae ability to fend off things that want to eat it, etc.

I never said anything about plants being "equally nourishing". I certainly believe that it is "justified" to kill another animal of a different species to eat its flesh. You can't eat an animal's flesh without enjoying it, so I don't care about your sneaky attempt to turn the simple issue of what nourishes our bodies to a morality play about pleasure. I do not feel any guilt about my bodily functions.

If I thought killing an animal to eat its flesh is not justified, then why would I think that killing a plant to eat its flesh is justified? A life is a life and to feed you have to take a life (or many). You're an animal and a cow is an animal, and so you (seem to?) think that a cow's life is more important or valuable than that of a potato, but that is an inconsistent and self-centered belief.

I don't really care about your distinction between "sentient" and, presumably non-sentient, either. That's an arbitrary distinction you have conjured up just to support your misguided ideology. In a vast universe that is almost entirely composed of dead matter, we must value life above all else, in all its forms. To value one being's life over another is an abominable injustice and it is only with extreme contortions of reason that vegans and vegetarians arrive at it. Or rather, historically, it is because of religious beliefs (like in Buddhists etc) that they do.