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Stolperstein
31–40 of 187 posts
Re: Stolperstein
#32Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apparently putting down the stones in Poland is met with resistance. If poles want to commemorate killed poles with these stones they will have to take the initiative.
The Poles I'm refering to were killed in Germany and the stones commemorating them exist. My comment is saying that the article is not mentioning them. There are stones like this in Poland commemorating Jews, e.g. former German city of Breslau, nowadays Wrocław. I believe the resistance came from the fact that Poles were not organizers of those killings/deportations and it was expected to be misunderstood by people u…
> My comment is saying that the article is not mentioning them.
If you care about this, the "article" is wikipedia, and in the time you wrote this posts you could have added it already.
edit: I was quick to comment, the article is protected. So unless you already have an active Wikipedia account, you'd have to request an edit on the talk page.
Re: Stolperstein
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apparently putting down the stones in Poland is met with resistance. If poles want to commemorate killed poles with these stones they will have to take the initiative.
It's their way of commemorating their victims and somehow in the process the second largest group slipped through. I don't want their way of commemorating their victims in my home Poland.
As the GP said there are several stones commemorating polish victims in Berlin and other places.
In this case the stones mark the places where the victims lived.
I assume most Polish victims did not live in the territory of present day Germany.
From personal experience I recall some with "eastern" names in a town that used to have a notable polish minority but I couldn't say for sure.
Btw Can you recommend places to visit to learn more about their stories and history (besides the former sites of the concentration camps)?
Re: Stolperstein
#34It's weird that the article explicitly mentiones various groups that were killed/deported to German concentration camps across Europe and commemorated by the stones, but does not mention the second largest one - Poles. German historical policy tends to not include Poles as victims the 1939-1945 Germany, but in spite of that, there are multiple stones commemorating them in today's Berlin.
Germany has a very interesting views on poles. While Germans living in Poland are officially recognized as a minority with all the rights (German schools, street names) the German government to this day refuses to recognize poles living in Germany as a minority.
Poles living in Germany are usually working migrants, not a minority that has lived there since centuries (like Germans in Poland). It's hard to compare those situations.
Re: Stolperstein
#35Insanely important, especially with the renewed rise of antisemitism - sad to see this downvoted.
It's top of the HN front page, it's not getting downvoted. In fact you can’t downvote a submission.
Re: Stolperstein
#36Insanely important, especially with the renewed rise of antisemitism - sad to see this downvoted.
Quoted post unavailable.
It depends on what you say, according to the IHRA:
“Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g., by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavor”
and
“Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis”
are both examples of anti-semitism according to this definition
Re: Stolperstein
#37Quoted post unavailable.
Wow. Taking a fringe opinion even within the German/international Jewish community and posting as if this was the majority opinion is interesting at least.
Please don't make it into a flame war. Because I strongly believe this is a topic that needs to be discussed. Esp. given the background in Germany with gravestones as plaster.
But also it needs to be acknowledged that the project does absolutely not intend a "mit Füßen treten" ("to trample upon") mentality towards history, memory or Jews.
It is totally valid and important to discuss if the benefits outweigh the feeling of some that it might enable people to "trample upon the Jewish names". I personally tend to lean towards the benefits. But I can totally understand people on the other side of the fence.
Implying that this is a majority opinion on the other hand is imho definitely not the right way to go about it.
Re: Stolperstein
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
The Poles I'm refering to were killed in Germany and the stones commemorating them exist. My comment is saying that the article is not mentioning them. There are stones like this in Poland commemorating Jews, e.g. former German city of Breslau, nowadays Wrocław. I believe the resistance came from the fact that Poles were not organizers of those killings/deportations and it was expected to be misunderstood by people u…
> My comment is saying that the article is not mentioning them. If you care about this, the "article" is wikipedia, and in the time you wrote this posts you could have added it already. edit: I was quick to comment, the article is protected. So unless you already have an active Wikipedia account, you'd have to request an edit on the talk page.
You're generally right, I can take on it and I will - but before I do it, I wanted to point out that as a consensus of work of many people, it ended up in mentioning petty criminals, but not tens of thousands of people who were expelled, prosecuted, killed, etc. because of their nationality.
It's hard to tell if this is some anti-Polish resentiments of one or many of the authors, or just extremely low level of historical knowledge, but something tells me it's the first.
Re: Stolperstein
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's their way of commemorating their victims and somehow in the process the second largest group slipped through. I don't want their way of commemorating their victims in my home Poland.
[flagged]
That wasn't what I was (and still is) taught in school in Germany.
The blame was always squarely put on Germany. It was always stressed that most of the German population had more than an inkling of what was going on and many agreed.
The first time I heard the term "polish extermination camps" was a few years ago when the Polish Government outlawed it.
So I'm really at a loss here.
Re: Stolperstein
#40Quoted post unavailable.
> Will be very hard to walk in russia.
That's not how these work, they are places at the home where the victim lived. Second, you are starting a flame war and being very off-topic.