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How to Not Get Hit by Cars

bicyclesafe.com

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Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#201

Post by ginko »

paulnpace wrote: post #180
CJefferson wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't own a car, but do own a bike. At least where I live, I also have the same single route as you to commute to work (there might be lovely alternative cycle lanes where you live).

No bicycle lanes. In fact, passing while completely in the other lane violates the law because the vehicle cannot be greater than 10 feet from the bicyclist due to how narrow the road is. The bicyclist's presence means they are, according to law, deciding the speed all traffic shall flow at. It is odd to me how bicyclists find this to be an acceptable situation and anyone disagreeing to be in the wrong, so much so th…

So this is the only road and there's no alternative bike path. It's too narrow for overtaking so presumably there's also not enough space for stopping on the side. You said yourself that cyclists tried to let you overtake which you didn't because it's illegal.

So what I don't understand is what else you think a cyclist can do in this situation other than not existing and bothering you. There's no alternative route.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#202

Post by Fatnino »

sydd wrote: post #136
Bostonian wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live, the cars greatly outnumber bikes. Cyclists that go in the main traffic lane will slow things down substantially, and I think that is inconsiderate.

Where I live its the legal right of bicyclists to use the road in the same manner as cars do. Just because your vehicle is less agile than yours, they are not inconsiderate, e.g. you would not honk on trucks just because they accelerate slower. Or on school buses because they need to stop often.

If you are driving a camper up a mountain road and you are going slower than traffic you are supposed to pull over when you get too many cars backed up behind you. I've heard the number is six cars backed up till you have to let them pass.

I see no reason a similar rule doesn't apply to bikes or anyone else legally using the road but traveling slower than the flow.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#203

Post by misslibby »

LightG wrote: post #33
misslibby wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem for elderly and sick people who need cars to get around.

Easy exemptions. And if people start abusing that, at least their relatives or random elderly people get out and about for more sightseeing!

There are a lot of elderly people, though.

I know it causes issues. Not saying it can't be solved, but it is naive to say that simply banning cars is always a net plus. Why did people living in the city even buy cars to begin with?

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#204

Post by misslibby »

adrianN wrote: post #169
misslibby wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Problem for elderly and sick people who need cars to get around.

People can get sufficiently elderly and sick that an electric tricycle would be the best form of transportation for them. In car centric areas they are usually confined to their homes in these cases.

What do you mean, those old people's motor rollers? I am not convinced.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#205

Post by wolrah »

avianlyric wrote: post #107
dotancohen wrote: post #98

Car driver here, not a bicyclist. I don't see your side of the story, and probably never will unless I kill one of you. Don't want me to hit you? Make yourself visible and courteous. Put on a bright jacket, bright helmet, or something else bright. And use a steady (not flashing) red light in the back and a steady (not flashing) white light aimed at the ground in the front. If you use flashing lights I cannot tell how…

> You've got a right to use the lane just as much as I do, but be a good citizen and actually let me pass you safely. If you hear me coming up behind you or notice my flashing high beams, please dip to the right a bit so that I can continue past you and leave you safely. Do you take the same approach to cars? Or do you reserve such aggressive tactics only for vulnerable road users? As you say, bike user have just as…

> Do you take the same approach to cars? Or do you reserve such aggressive tactics only for vulnerable road users?

Look in the manual for your car (or pick a random one on the internet and download it). If the headlight stalk has a momentary mode there's a good chance it's literally referred to as "flash-to-pass". It's not aggressive, it's how to communicate a desire/intent to pass to slower traffic.

To your specific question, have you ever seen a line of cars behind a tractor or school bus on a rural road? Or an octogenarian doing 48 MPH on a highway?

How about bicyclists on a path shared with pedestrians? Funny that, cyclists often have the same problems with pedestrians as drivers have with cyclists. Heck, I'd bet joggers have conflicts with walkers.

It's not about the bicycle, it's about slow traffic blocking fast traffic.

Slow traffic that is blocking fast traffic on a shared path should attempt to enable safe passing, for everyone's benefit. Sometimes, especially in hilly/mountainous areas, this involves actually pulling over and stopping because there's not enough room to allow for safe passing in motion. It's not unheard of for such roads to have pull-off areas specifically for this purpose. It's courteous and it makes everyone's day better.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#206

Post by paulnpace »

ginko wrote: post #201
paulnpace wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No bicycle lanes. In fact, passing while completely in the other lane violates the law because the vehicle cannot be greater than 10 feet from the bicyclist due to how narrow the road is. The bicyclist's presence means they are, according to law, deciding the speed all traffic shall flow at. It is odd to me how bicyclists find this to be an acceptable situation and anyone disagreeing to be in the wrong, so much so th…

So this is the only road and there's no alternative bike path. It's too narrow for overtaking so presumably there's also not enough space for stopping on the side. You said yourself that cyclists tried to let you overtake which you didn't because it's illegal. So what I don't understand is what else you think a cyclist can do in this situation other than not existing and bothering you. There's no alternative route.

There is easily enough room for a bicyclist to stop on the side because there are driveways a-plenty plus utility pullouts. These things cannot do anything to increase the usable width of the road for a car.

I see a really consistent trend of people who feel it must be the case that the bicyclist must be justified in what they are doing, then go on to make assumptions that are wrong, just as you here assumed something about the road that is wrong.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#207

Post by antisthenes »

radec wrote: post #167
hammock wrote: post #2

So much of this advice is “ride to the left” and I wish to emphasize it. Novice riders are trained to stick to an invisible (or painted) bike lake which ends up with them being far less visible than they need to be. Your safety is more important than some car’s need to get to work 5 seconds faster, and you shouldn’t feel controlling anxiety if some idiot honks at you for riding in the main traffic lane. You have righ…

>Novice riders are trained to stick to an invisible (or painted) bike lake which ends up with them being far less visible than they need to be. I don't think it necessarily has to do with being a novice, sometimes it's just the law. I bike mostly in Oregon and as far as I am aware you have stay in the bike lane if there is one, unless you are passing it the lane is blocked. ORS 814.420

And I believe what the OP and the article are saying in spirit (if not explicitly) - it's OK to break stupid laws in the interest of your own safety.

Laws are just a bunch of words that may or may not be on paper. Not all of them are equally useful or thought-out. Many won't be upheld in court, depending on circumstances.

In 99.9% cases, it's better to break a law than risk injury/death.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#208

Post by _9c1y »

paulnpace wrote: post #182
gjm11 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I understand. Apparently it's unreasonable for one set of road users to say to another "When we're around, you have to go much more slowly on this road than you would like to". But it's not unreasonable for one set of road users to say to another: "You must not use this road at all". Actually, I'm not being entirely sincere. I think I understand very well: you think that car drivers are proper road user…

Yes, the universe shall operate on the bicyclist's time and speed. Anyone disagreeing with this is hostile and should receive lashes for being such an angry hater of anything that is good and just in this world. I think the problem here is there is scarce resources, and you cannot understand or deal with this in any other way than to force everyone to live in the universe as you expect them to. All people shall trave…

I completely agree with you on these points.

When unbending, the cyclists’ stance on this kind of thing feels very misattuned to physics and social awareness.

Doesn’t it create more carbon emissions to cause cars to be on the road for twice as long, running at less-efficient speeds?

Especially when a cyclist blocking a half-dozen or more cars could pull over for 30 seconds to let them pass.

And sure, equal rights to the road, I can get behind. If a thoroughfare is intended for different types of vehicles with average speeds that can differ by an order of magnitude, it feels aware and attuned to me that the operators of these vehicles respectively know when to relax a tight-fisted grip on “rules no matter what”, and adjust according to the situation.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#209

Post by rsanek »

polote wrote: post #39

That's not riding a bike which is dangerous it is riding in the same zones as cars as the article points out. May people say we shouldn't trust anyone to carry guns, but we allow anyone to drive a car, that's at least as much dangerous. All the examples of the articles are good, but there are two many to learn and remember. I follow one and only one rule when I ride my bike. Assume you can get killed at every time an…

>Always look backward before doing anything else or if a car is approaching.

Better yet, get a rear-view mirror that attaches to your helmet or handlebars so you don't have to turn your full head around. It's been a huge improvement for me since I've gotten it and when I ride shared bikes without mirrors I really notice how much I've come to rely on them.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#210

Post by jimmaswell »

sydd wrote: post #136
Bostonian wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live, the cars greatly outnumber bikes. Cyclists that go in the main traffic lane will slow things down substantially, and I think that is inconsiderate.

Where I live its the legal right of bicyclists to use the road in the same manner as cars do. Just because your vehicle is less agile than yours, they are not inconsiderate, e.g. you would not honk on trucks just because they accelerate slower. Or on school buses because they need to stop often.

Where do you live? Every road law on bicycles I've ever read has said something to the effect of "ride as far to the right as practiceable, except to avoid dangerous debris or make a left turn."
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