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How to Not Get Hit by Cars

bicyclesafe.com

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Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#191

Post by avianlyric »

ch4s3 wrote: post #178
avianlyric wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends what part of London you’re in. Unfortunately cycle infrastructure is mostly managed by the local boroughs, who all have very different views on cycling. Westminster and Kensington are famously hateful of cyclist, and do every they can to avoid building anything but the most pathetic cycle infrastructure. However boroughs like Southwark are far not forward thinking. My area is covered in wide dedicated cycle l…

I biked in Kensington, SoHo, and City of London. They were all unpleasant in different but noticeable ways. Old narrow roundabouts were especially scary in the bike. The bus lanes were nice though.

Yeah, most of the cycle infrastructure north of the river isn’t great. South is substantially better, the difference is stark. Thankfully it’s getting better north of the river, but a lot of that infrastructure was built before TfL realised that half-arsed infrastructure just doesn’t work. You either need to build proper infrastructure, or just not bother. Thankfully those lessons have been applied to the new infrastructure that being built, include all the stuff south of the river which is more recent.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#192

Post by deathanatos »

Collision types 5, 6, 7 all seem predicated on the unwritten assumption that you're in an impromptu lane (one lane, two vehicles) with a car. In that case, yeah, it's always a bad idea.

But where the collisions happen, in my experience, is the following setup:

       /--------->
       |
     +---+ |   |       +-----------------
  |  |   | |   |       |
     |car| | B | Right |
     |   | |   |  turn |
  |  +---+ |   |  only |
           |   |       |
From left to right, there are three lanes: Leftmost, a straight-travel lane, with a car, in the middle lane, a dedicated bike lane with a biker, and on the far right, a right turn lane for cars.

Here, the car, in the third lane from the right hand side of the road, proceeds to turn right, and clips a biker in the process. I have seen this near-hit so many times, that in my car we have a designated phrasing for it ("right turn from not the rightmost lane"), and it is, to me, the most dangerous thing out there, in turns of commonness (frighteningly common) and severity (very collision prone). (Vs. something like "driving the wrong way", which while highly dangerous, doesn't tend to happen as often, relative to this.) Happens even when the bike lane isn't a thing, in car-on-car scenarios too.

Of the three collisions I've seen cyclists in, two were this setup. (Both cyclists walked away, thankfully; the last collision I've witness was a dooring.)

The nearest-to-death I've ever been on a bike was this setup, except the turning car was in lane 1, on a 5 lane road. I.e., he turned right, from the left turn only lane, across 4 lanes of traffic, and nearly hit me in the process. I was forced to take the right (basically along his side) in order to avoid the collision. His words: "sorry."

On dooring,

> Ride to the left. Ride far enough to the left that you won't run into any door that's opened unexpectedly.

Where I am we have dedicated bike lanes. To ride left enough to avoid a door would require me to abandon the bike lane, as it isn't wide enough for a door and a bike.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#193

Post by avianlyric »

lelanthran wrote: post #141
avianlyric wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You've got a right to use the lane just as much as I do, but be a good citizen and actually let me pass you safely. If you hear me coming up behind you or notice my flashing high beams, please dip to the right a bit so that I can continue past you and leave you safely. Do you take the same approach to cars? Or do you reserve such aggressive tactics only for vulnerable road users? As you say, bike user have just as…

> Do you take the same approach to cars? Or do you reserve such aggressive tactics only for vulnerable road users? I assure you almost all car drivers get annoyed by slow-moving[1] obstacles in their path, whether car, camel or bike. Why on earth would you think that someone would not get annoyed? [1] Depending on how slow the obstacle is moving, the annoyance can range from muttering-under-the-breath to honking in d…

> I assure you almost all car drivers get annoyed by slow-moving[1] obstacles in their path, whether car, camel or bike. > > Why on earth would you think that someone would not get annoyed?

Oh I’m so sorry. Clearly driver annoyance is far more important than avoiding cycle and pedestrian, death and injury. Please go right ahead, intimidate and mow those slow moving obstacles.

Prehaps driver should take some time to realise that cyclist don’t like holding up traffic either, they don’t do it for finishes, they do it because the lack to cycle infrastructure means they have no other options.

Don’t want bike slowing down car traffic, build dedicated infrastructure for them so they don’t have to share the same space as cars. Everybody wins, cyclists don’t need to worry about being hit by cars, car don’t have to get stuck behind bikes.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#194

Post by MrsPeaches »

ch4s3 wrote: post #80
OJFord wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, cycle lanes stop or are explicitly painted out in front of cars in such areas. Such as: http://s0.geograph.org.uk/geophotos/02/57/34/2573447_7290591... (it's not clear without more context why the lane's on the right, remember we drive on the left so usually the lane is too, but my point is the area in front of the cars, forcing cars to see you and allowing the cyclists to clear the junction first.)

I was just in London, and while the boxes were nice the lanes were terrible and overly narrow. The drivers were homicidal compared to drivers in NYC. I wouldn’t say it was a positive experience.

Cycling in London sometimes feels like an extreme sport.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#195

Post by YeGoblynQueenne »

dotancohen wrote: post #188
YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Don't want me to hit you? Not a bike rider, but if you don't want to hit anyone, then you should try not to, regardless of whatever anyone else is doing. Btw, you proably didn't intend it that way but your comment comes across as threatening to hit somebody.

> "Me" being all car drivers. I specifically might not try to squeeze past bike > riders, and I specifically might actually be patient on the road. But the > proverbial "me" is the worst of the car drivers for purpose of this post.

Why do you keep copy/pasting this same bit of text without explanation? Should I assume you have no interest in this conversation and you do not think any of your interlocutors are worthy of engaging with on an individual level?

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#196

Post by lamontcg »

xaedes wrote: post #184

How to avoid all of these: Have and use bike lanes that are isolated from car lanes, e.g. on sidewalks. Avoid crossing street at intersections that are not ultimately regulated by traffic lights. Instead try to find a crossing, preferable with traffic lights, on a street with enough distance to intersections where cars could suddenly appear from. Instead one is often instructed to ride right next between/to cars in t…

The only time I nearly hit a bicyclist they were riding in the sidewalk where I didn't expect them at all when they crossed in front of me. I like having the option of using the sidewalk when the street is a mess (particularly to bypass construction zones safely) but in general sidewalks are the wrong answer. Anyone who thinks they can boil it all down to yelling at bicyclists to just get off the roads isn't really trying to make bicycling safer. False concern for their safety.

That #1 type of collision in the linked article here ("right cross") becomes much worse with bikes on the crosswalk.

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#197

Post by xaedes »

lamontcg wrote: post #196
xaedes wrote: post #184

How to avoid all of these: Have and use bike lanes that are isolated from car lanes, e.g. on sidewalks. Avoid crossing street at intersections that are not ultimately regulated by traffic lights. Instead try to find a crossing, preferable with traffic lights, on a street with enough distance to intersections where cars could suddenly appear from. Instead one is often instructed to ride right next between/to cars in t…

The only time I nearly hit a bicyclist they were riding in the sidewalk where I didn't expect them at all when they crossed in front of me. I like having the option of using the sidewalk when the street is a mess (particularly to bypass construction zones safely) but in general sidewalks are the wrong answer. Anyone who thinks they can boil it all down to yelling at bicyclists to just get off the roads isn't really t…

That is why I suggested:

> Avoid crossing street at intersections that are not ultimately regulated by traffic lights. Instead try to find a crossing, preferable with traffic lights, on a street with enough distance to intersections where cars could suddenly appear from.

And a car driving on sidewalk should be super focused. I mean the car does not belong there at all!

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#198

Post by notacoward »

mplanchard wrote: post #148
dagurp wrote: post #102

They only thing I don't agree with is using a flashing light on the front. It is incredibly inconsiderate, especially to other cyclists and pedestrians

Much more important to be visible than nice, particularly when riding at night. Bikes with just a rear light are not especially visible from the front at night, and it’s easy to miss them if you’re a car turning into the road where the bike is traveling. As someone who commuted by bike daily for about ten years, I cannot imagine thinking that another bike having a flashing front light is inconsiderate. I love to see…

Yes, it's much more important to be visible, but - as another commenter already pointed out - flashing lights make it harder to judge speed and distance. This effect is even more pronounced when there's a high speed differential, which is why you might think it's OK but pedestrians or drivers who aren't matched to your speed might feel differently (and be right). The best approach is to use both flashing and steady, serving different purposes. Flashing lights alone are not just inconsiderate but bad for safety, especially if they're also blindingly bright (another too-common fetish).

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#199

Post by dotancohen »

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #195
dotancohen wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Me" being all car drivers. I specifically might not try to squeeze past bike > riders, and I specifically might actually be patient on the road. But the > proverbial "me" is the worst of the car drivers for purpose of this post.

Why do you keep copy/pasting this same bit of text without explanation? Should I assume you have no interest in this conversation and you do not think any of your interlocutors are worthy of engaging with on an individual level?

I thought that the explanation was obvious, just that people were not reading my entire post. I actually considered moving that portion to the top, but did not want to change the context of my original post.

That bit of text demonstrates that I'm not describing how I, Dotan Cohen, feel. That bit of text demonstrates that I am presenting the side of a large portion of car drivers. The bike riders cannot reason with them, because for every driver they educate there are countless hundreds more who have not been educated.

I personally respect all users of the road, be them on two, four, or more wheels, and be them powered by gas, diesel, electric, or muscle. In fact, I'm usually the slow poke being overtaken on the road, and when people pass I do dip right to ease their passing (I'm in an electric Model 3 today, previous to that it was a FWD Impreza).

Re: How to Not Get Hit by Cars

#200

Post by lelanthran »

avianlyric wrote: post #193
lelanthran wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you take the same approach to cars? Or do you reserve such aggressive tactics only for vulnerable road users? I assure you almost all car drivers get annoyed by slow-moving[1] obstacles in their path, whether car, camel or bike. Why on earth would you think that someone would not get annoyed? [1] Depending on how slow the obstacle is moving, the annoyance can range from muttering-under-the-breath to honking in d…

> I assure you almost all car drivers get annoyed by slow-moving[1] obstacles in their path, whether car, camel or bike. > > Why on earth would you think that someone would not get annoyed? Oh I’m so sorry. Clearly driver annoyance is far more important than avoiding cycle and pedestrian, death and injury. Please go right ahead, intimidate and mow those slow moving obstacles. Prehaps driver should take some time to r…

> Oh I’m so sorry. Clearly driver annoyance is far more important than avoiding cycle and pedestrian, death and injury. Please go right ahead, intimidate and mow those slow moving obstacles.

That wasn't the point I made.

People get annoyed by obstacles; it's a people reaction, not a car-driver reaction.

Are you seriously saying that cyclists won't be annoyed if they were forced to share their route with much slower moving obstacles?

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