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Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

neo.life

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Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#61

Post by pcthrowaway »

GeorgeBanica wrote: post #54
aszantu wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. But it would be nice if there were public pig pens where you could recycle food waste into bacon. Transportation is the biggest co2 producer...

>there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. I'm curious, what are some of those nutrients?

Off the top of my head, DHA/EPA Omega 3s, Creatine, and Glucosamine aren't really found in plants. I think Choline and B12 are hard to get adequate amounts from plant sources as well.

I think you can live OK without those (I'm vegan), but supplementing the above from non-animal sources is probably a good idea, or at least not a bad one.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#62

Post by myshpa »

manigandham wrote: post #28
issa wrote: post #25

It is pretty insane when you think about it. We could get all the climate harm reduction benefits the article mentions if people would just choose to eat plants instead. Seems like a very simple solution.

There’s nothing simple about changing human nature. If you have to start with "if people would just choose" then it's not viable.

It's not human nature. It's just a tradition. And a tradition is just a story (maybe even a lie) we've been taught, and which we tell ourselves. Stories are easily changed - like slavery or patriarchy, for example.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#63

Post by rbanffy »

ravenstine wrote: post #35
howlin wrote: post #11

Instead of elaborate carbon capture infrastructure, it seems more straightforward to just use photosynthetic organisms like algae. Either engineer algae to make the proteins you want, or engineer yeast or some other microbe that can take the products of algae and convert to these proteins. Honestly it sounds like a needless and impractical gimmick.

Or we can just have plants capture the CO2, give those plants to large ruminants which will feed those plants to the microbiota in their cecum, digest the microbiota and converting it into the kind of nutritious protein and fat that hominids have adapted to digest almost exclusively for millions of years. If one is worried about the methane emissions of cattle, it's not really clear that this is even a secondary conc…

> Or we can just have plants capture the CO2, give those plants to large ruminants which will feed those plants to the microbiota in their cecum, digest the microbiota and converting it into the kind of nutritious protein and fat that hominids have adapted to digest almost exclusively for millions of years.

The time involved, from capture by plants to a grown up mammal are very long. The space this very elegant self-replicating organic machines take is also enormous. You can cut the process in half and get proteins and carbs directly from plants, but we have known that for ages and, even with the future of our species at stake (no pun intended) we still haven’t changed our diets.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#64

Post by rbanffy »

snovv_crash wrote: post #51
IanCal wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what if methane is more "potent"? If you are concerned about global warming, swapping one thing for something else that has a greater negative impact is bad. Having a process or animal that converts CO2 to methane is not neutral just because the CO2 was already in the atmosphere. > How potent 25x more. > and in relation to what, CO2 over a period of 100 years usually. > and in what amount? Any amount, it's a rel…

Doesn't methane break down much more rapidly than CO2?

Yes. And it turns into, guess what, CO2. And heat.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#65

Post by rbanffy »

tomp wrote: post #60
qayxc wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels). How so? Even the article itself brings up various reasons that don't include CO2 emissions; deforestation and water use for example. Cattle in particular are a major source for methane emissions - a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. The direct contribution to global warming (vi…

Deforestation & water use aren’t a problem in the first world. Maize & soy are also made from captured CO2 like grass. Yes the remaining CO2 released is from energy & transport (oil) used, but that is solved not by demonizing meat, but by improving energy generation (nuclear & solar instead of oil/coal/gas)

> Deforestation & water use aren’t a problem in the first world.

Yes. We pay the third world to do it for us. Lucky we live in different worlds, and what happens there doesn’t impact us, right?

> by improving energy generation

You are still not accounting for the surface used and the long multi-year process that’s growing a cow.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#66

Post by rbanffy »

tomp wrote: post #59
shinryuu wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chemical composition matter. Scenario one: CH4 + 2 02 Scenario two: 2 H20 + C + 02 Scenario three: C02 + 2 H2 + 02 All of the above have the same molecules but they have a wildly different impact on from a climate change perspective.

Not long term they don’t. CH4 breaks down into CO2 in a few decades, forming a natural cycle. The only long-term climate impact is from additional CO2 from fossil fuels.

Which is why the article points out that offsetting meat production entirely from fossil fuel would require unrealistic changes. Going vegetarian would be easier, but, if (and it’s a big if, as many experts highlighted) they manage to accomplish even a small part of their goal, the impact is still very large.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#67

Post by myshpa »

pcthrowaway wrote: post #61
GeorgeBanica wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. I'm curious, what are some of those nutrients?

Off the top of my head, DHA/EPA Omega 3s, Creatine, and Glucosamine aren't really found in plants. I think Choline and B12 are hard to get adequate amounts from plant sources as well. I think you can live OK without those (I'm vegan), but supplementing the above from non-animal sources is probably a good idea, or at least not a bad one.

There is a lot of non-animal sources for that stuff. We don't need animals for production of dietary supplements.

IMHO vegans need to supplement only B12, as we live in too sterile environments to get enought of it naturally, for other things sufficiently diverse diet should suffice.

DHA/EPA Omega 3s - algae, seaweed, spirulina, flaxseed, chiaseeds, hempseeds, wallnuts, cruciferous vegetables (brussel sprouts)

Creatine - spirulina, chives, edamame, ... (https://thedietauthority.com/best-sources-of-creatine-for-ve...)

Glucosamine - corn, wheat

Choline - legumes

B12 - bacteria, nutritional yeast, seaweed, mushrooms

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#68

Post by rbanffy »

myshpa wrote: post #62
manigandham wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s nothing simple about changing human nature. If you have to start with "if people would just choose" then it's not viable.

It's not human nature. It's just a tradition. And a tradition is just a story (maybe even a lie) we've been taught, and which we tell ourselves. Stories are easily changed - like slavery or patriarchy, for example. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7JE8j5Ncmw

They have a point. We may be relatively smart individuals, but, collectively, humanity is unbelievably stupid.

It’s not like we found out yesterday we’ll all die unless we change our ways. We’ve known this for at least a generation and, yet, we keep building the political-industrial systems that will bring our extinction in exchange for some short-term individual gains.

I’m not innocent of that either: last year we weighted our options and we ended up getting a gas-powered car because the EV equivalent would still be more expensive over the three year lease.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#69

Post by myshpa »

aszantu wrote: post #46
azakai wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not simple, you're right, but history has shown again and again that it can be viable. Society has made a lot of progress. In the end people can just choose. If someone reading this right now eats meat, then you can make the choice to eat more plants. Please do so as much as you can, that will make a difference in saving the planet!

I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. But it would be nice if there were public pig pens where you could recycle food waste into bacon. Transportation is the biggest co2 producer...

> I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion)

Eat a diverse low-fat, whole plant-based diet - if you don't how or what, find yourself a weekly vegan meal plan. Supplement with B12 and you'll be fine. Learn to cook, explore vegan meals/recipes from around the world, stay away from processed food.

> There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants.

That's a lie you've been told. Plants are enough (again, don't forget your B12 vegan supplements).

> Transportation is the biggest co2 producer...

Transport, processing, retail & packaging is a miniscule part in CO2 production compared to land use change & farming.

[https://ychef.files.bbci.co.uk/1600x900/p0c41fcj.webp - Emissions (in kg CO2e) from the food supply chain – the climate impact of food miles is often a small proportion (Source: Our World in Data/Poore and Nemecek, Science, 2018), linked from ] [https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20220429-the-climate-bene...]

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#70

Post by koide »

pxeger1 wrote: post #44
ravenstine wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we can just have plants capture the CO2, give those plants to large ruminants which will feed those plants to the microbiota in their cecum, digest the microbiota and converting it into the kind of nutritious protein and fat that hominids have adapted to digest almost exclusively for millions of years. If one is worried about the methane emissions of cattle, it's not really clear that this is even a secondary conc…

Meat farming takes in CO2 (photosynthesis), and produces CO2 (cows breathing) and CH4 (cows farting). CH4 is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, so, even by your flawed simplified model, farming cows has a net negative greenhouse effect.

It's not farting, it's belching. Can be ameliorated adding algae to the feed.

It's not very relevant to the point you're making in this case, but it's good to be precise and also might help you revisit your sources if you just didn't misspeak. https://climate.nasa.gov/faq/33/which-is-a-bigger-methane-so...

https://www.industry.gov.au/data-and-publications/from-beach...

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