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Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

neo.life

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Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#51

Post by snovv_crash »

IanCal wrote: post #50
ravenstine wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if methane is more "potent"? How potent and in relation to what, and in what amount? Large ruminants and other animals that produce methane roamed the Earth in greater numbers long before humans came up with the concept of livestock. Stable isotopes of carbon in atmospheric methane don't support livestock being a contributor to rising methane at all . Because livestock methane is part of the carbon cycle , an…

> So what if methane is more "potent"? If you are concerned about global warming, swapping one thing for something else that has a greater negative impact is bad. Having a process or animal that converts CO2 to methane is not neutral just because the CO2 was already in the atmosphere. > How potent 25x more. > and in relation to what, CO2 over a period of 100 years usually. > and in what amount? Any amount, it's a rel…

Doesn't methane break down much more rapidly than CO2?

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#52

Post by tomp »

I don't understand.

All meat is made from recycled carbon dioxide (plants, e.g. corn & grass, take CO2 out of the atmosphere and "recycle" it, that's then fed to animals to grow meat).

As I always like to says, cows are just recycled grass.

Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#53

Post by tomp »

pxeger1 wrote: post #44
ravenstine wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we can just have plants capture the CO2, give those plants to large ruminants which will feed those plants to the microbiota in their cecum, digest the microbiota and converting it into the kind of nutritious protein and fat that hominids have adapted to digest almost exclusively for millions of years. If one is worried about the methane emissions of cattle, it's not really clear that this is even a secondary conc…

Meat farming takes in CO2 (photosynthesis), and produces CO2 (cows breathing) and CH4 (cows farting). CH4 is a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2, so, even by your flawed simplified model, farming cows has a net negative greenhouse effect.

CH4 has a half life of like 10 years or so, so even if you deleted all cows from the world right now, in 20-40 years you'd be back to "only fossil fuel CO2 causing climate change".

Furthermore, has CH4 from cows even increased historically? There are 30m cows in the US, compared to 60m bison 150 years ago.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#54

Post by GeorgeBanica »

aszantu wrote: post #46
azakai wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not simple, you're right, but history has shown again and again that it can be viable. Society has made a lot of progress. In the end people can just choose. If someone reading this right now eats meat, then you can make the choice to eat more plants. Please do so as much as you can, that will make a difference in saving the planet!

I'd love to eat plants a lot. Just turns out they give me depression.(takes about 4 days after ingestion) There is something called bio-availability and there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants. But it would be nice if there were public pig pens where you could recycle food waste into bacon. Transportation is the biggest co2 producer...

>there are nutrients in meat that you don't ever get from plants.

I'm curious, what are some of those nutrients?

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#55

Post by qayxc »

tomp wrote: post #52

I don't understand. All meat is made from recycled carbon dioxide (plants, e.g. corn & grass, take CO2 out of the atmosphere and "recycle" it, that's then fed to animals to grow meat). As I always like to says, cows are just recycled grass. Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

> Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

How so? Even the article itself brings up various reasons that don't include CO2 emissions; deforestation and water use for example. Cattle in particular are a major source for methane emissions - a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2.

The direct contribution to global warming (via methane emissions) is very low, yes. The problem arises from feeding and waste removal. It's a multi-dimensional issue and no, cows are not just recycled grass - if that were the case they wouldn't have the same impact. Most dairy cows (appr. half the overall cow population) are fed maize, soy, and high-energy supplements in order increase yield. Silages are also frequently used and the fermenting process also adds to the GHG emissions.

> Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

That doesn't make sense. Modern farm operations rely heavily on fossil fuels and fertiliser. This isn't the 18th century anymore, there aren't herdsmen watching over cows grazing on meadows. This: https://www.agdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/bg-dairy_... is what a modern dairy farm looks like and these feed pellets https://media.istockphoto.com/photos/pellet-feed-for-cows-pi... aren't made of just grass either.

It's a romanticised image that many still have in mind when thinking of meat production, but it's a heavily mechanised industry today and pictures like this https://ak0.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/4426340/thumb/1.jp... don't reflect a large part of the industry anymore.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#56

Post by ibz »

dqv wrote: post #18
User23 wrote: post #9

Grass is made from recycled carbon dioxide and cows are made from grass. And we already know beef is delicious.

What are recycled jokes made of? The point of the exercise is to find alternatives that aren't so hard on the environment. >“By contrast, our process takes a few days to make a steak, has very low water utilization, is carbon negative, uses zero arable land, and minimal land overall.” The point is not recycling carbon for funsies, but to actually have a positive impact on the environment. Whether the process describe…

> The point of the exercise is to find alternatives that aren't so hard on the environment.

Cows and grass are "the environment".

Millions of years of evolution refined cows to be the best mechanism for converting grass into meat. Some hippy scientists think they can do better? I doubt.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#57

Post by shinryuu »

tomp wrote: post #52

I don't understand. All meat is made from recycled carbon dioxide (plants, e.g. corn & grass, take CO2 out of the atmosphere and "recycle" it, that's then fed to animals to grow meat). As I always like to says, cows are just recycled grass. Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

Chemical composition matter.

Scenario one: CH4 + 2 02

Scenario two: 2 H20 + C + 02

Scenario three: C02 + 2 H2 + 02

All of the above have the same molecules but they have a wildly different impact on from a climate change perspective.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#58

Post by 127 »

tomp wrote: post #52

I don't understand. All meat is made from recycled carbon dioxide (plants, e.g. corn & grass, take CO2 out of the atmosphere and "recycle" it, that's then fed to animals to grow meat). As I always like to says, cows are just recycled grass. Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

>Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

It's not either or. Recognizing the cost in fossil fuels, does not magically reduce the cost in meat production.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#59

Post by tomp »

shinryuu wrote: post #57
tomp wrote: post #52

I don't understand. All meat is made from recycled carbon dioxide (plants, e.g. corn & grass, take CO2 out of the atmosphere and "recycle" it, that's then fed to animals to grow meat). As I always like to says, cows are just recycled grass. Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

Chemical composition matter. Scenario one: CH4 + 2 02 Scenario two: 2 H20 + C + 02 Scenario three: C02 + 2 H2 + 02 All of the above have the same molecules but they have a wildly different impact on from a climate change perspective.

Not long term they don’t.

CH4 breaks down into CO2 in a few decades, forming a natural cycle. The only long-term climate impact is from additional CO2 from fossil fuels.

Re: Meat made from recycled carbon dioxide

#60

Post by tomp »

qayxc wrote: post #55
tomp wrote: post #52

I don't understand. All meat is made from recycled carbon dioxide (plants, e.g. corn & grass, take CO2 out of the atmosphere and "recycle" it, that's then fed to animals to grow meat). As I always like to says, cows are just recycled grass. Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels).

> Everyone blaming "meat" for global warming is just a shill for the petrol industry, distracting from the real cause (fossil fuels). How so? Even the article itself brings up various reasons that don't include CO2 emissions; deforestation and water use for example. Cattle in particular are a major source for methane emissions - a much more potent greenhouse gas than CO2. The direct contribution to global warming (vi…

Deforestation & water use aren’t a problem in the first world.

Maize & soy are also made from captured CO2 like grass.

Yes the remaining CO2 released is from energy & transport (oil) used, but that is solved not by demonizing meat, but by improving energy generation (nuclear & solar instead of oil/coal/gas)

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