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Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

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Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#31

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This comment is absolutely drenched in ideology, the kind of Protestantism that will grind the whole planet into dust if we let it. Sheer, absolute drivel.

"As we all know" aside - what's wrong with slacking off? Does painting, writing poetry, playing sports with kids, learning an instrument count as slacking off? Why does spending 8 hours a day at a job where you perform some rote, pointless, abstract task - like sending emails and having meetings about advertising - count as _not_ slacking off?

Obesity, suicide and depression have not been rising under conditions of an excess of leisure, they have been rising under a regimen of constant, precarious toil for less return, more alienated from the benefit of the work itself.

Human beings thrive when the boot of your smug ideology is taken off of their throats.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#32

People do have excess free time. How else can you manage to waste 4+ hours on streaming and social media per day?

Preferably you need some energy left, not just the time. I.e. 3h of leisure after 4h or 8h of work is very different quality wise.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#33

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The only thing I agree with is people got the leasure time and loved it.

Most people don't enjoy their job, or jobs.

Most people don't like commuting rediculious distances just to make rent, and eat.

Most people realalized during Covid they might have been happier.

The virtual/physical infrastructure wouldn't have been built with work from home. This is our first experiment with working from home, and it went pretty well. Many jobs, with the help of technology, could be done at home.

We still don't know why so many lousy jobs are going unfilled. My take is adult kids moved home--a home they will never afford, and lived with their parents, and it was better than paying 80% of your paycheck for a lousy apartment.

I've always felt the world has two types of people. Those that built their lives around work. They come home, and even like to talk about it. You take their job away, and yes, they loose their identity.

Then there's the slacker, like myself. Work is unpleasant, unfulfilling, mind numbing, thing I just have to do. I don't enjoy really any of it be it the early show up times, or my superiors, and especially the long commute. I could care less about the company. I would be robbing the joint blind if the penalties weren't so severe.

I do know this, but most people don't have a say in the matter:

I have known way to many males wait to long to retire, and because all their personality was geared towards working don't last long. And we men just die so dam early to begin with.

I once got a peak at some union delagates debating retirement ages. It was Local 6 electrical. Guys could retire at 55, or 65. At 65 they got more money. You stll had to put 25 years in both plans. The union liked the 65 year old plan. Why? Because the retirees would only collect a handful of retirement checks before dying. They told retirees they would cover 100% of health care costs at 65 knowing these guys wern't going to see 65. Local 6 union is one of the better unions in the USA too.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#34

People do have excess free time. How else can you manage to waste 4+ hours on streaming and social media per day?

I think some of that is not 'free' but 'recharge' time. If you're so exhausted that all you can do is stare at a screen then you're not doing what you really want.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#35

I am amazed at the disdain for leisure and "free" time and "slacking" in the comments here. If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like! I suspect a big problem is that many people actually don't know what they like to do. Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and th…

Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and thus know is low-effort "comfortable" things like watching TV/YT/netflix.

This is definitely a factor. It isn't just work: Maybe you 'only' work 40 hours a week. So does your spouse, though, and the children still need things as well. Housework still needs done, and someone has to produce food daily. It doesn't leave much time at all.

The other factor is money: If you have little to no money leftover to do anything, you aren't going to do it. Netflix and youtube are fairly low cost entertainment and can get you through a month, not to mention that they provide some sort of entertainment while you are doing other things much like radios used to. Housework is better when you are entertained.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#36

Freedom is an important part of the American identity (arguably the defining part, at least aspirationally), and I believe in freedom. But we should recognize that humans are sometimes happier having some clear directions to follow and tasks to perform. Depends on the person and the situation, of course. But it's also human nature that everyone wants to be the one giving the directions, even if it makes them unhappy.

I don't think it's possible to say anything definitive like this about human nature. Are people happier taking orders, or is it easier due to conditioning? Is that happiness?

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#38

I am amazed at the disdain for leisure and "free" time and "slacking" in the comments here. If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like! I suspect a big problem is that many people actually don't know what they like to do. Most people with full-time jobs I know don't have much energy left after their workday, and thus the only "leisure" they are still capable of and th…

> If a person has enough to survive, why would they toil and labour? Just do whatever you like!

It really boils down on how many people need how much resources and how many people produce these resources. You can argue over who should be your bourgeoisie, should it be the political elite or the entrepreneurs or should it be inherited or or should it be the the people from special blood or religion or should no one be bourgeoisie and everyone should be working but you can't really argue over the resources and work done that is need to sustain a society.

You simply cannot have all the population on planet Earth retire on their savings because you cannot eat the numbers on the screen. With automation, robotics and other technologies we can increase the productivity and as a result we can afford to have greater percentage of people in leisure but we are nowhere near total machine labor. In fact, the percentage of non-working people probably is not that different than the past because despite the increase in productivity we also have increased lifespan which results in large number of retirees who consume the resources for much longer than before.

In dominant countries you might have the percentage higher and live off on imports from countries where everyone works much harder but the gap evaporates as these countries catch up.

So, the trick is to be part of a society that is so much advanced than the rest that their produce can buy off the produce of the society that relies on hard work. You can have a lot of bananas from Honduras if your society can make great apps that Hondurans love and willing to trade their bananas but this scheme falls apart when Hondurans start making their own apps and now you need to grow your own bananas.

Re: Experts once predicted that Americans would face excess leisure time (2015)

#40
As a few other commenters pointed out, the perspective of many on the idea of leisure time is that it will lead to one’s destruction. This is an incredibly damaging and blind perspective on the struggles of the working class. There is no leisure time when you work a poor paying physically and emotionally demanding job and spend the other hours of the day preparing for said job (house work, eating, commuting). Work will set you free but wage slavery binds you. There is also a learned helplessness that comes with this soul crushing routine that turns you against your fellow worker and pushes them to comply with a system that only breaks you. For some, this learned helplessness is the only way to cope with the reality that your life is to serve the same 5 oligarchs that rule.
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