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Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

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Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#181

Post by smt88 »

agumonkey wrote: post #152
amelius wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what doctors call "the honeymoon phase", and it can happen with various drugs and supplements. If it stops working, and you can't reproduce it the second or third time, then it's probably better to give up and look for another solution.

This would have been the strangest placebo I've read so far.

Placebo effect can be very powerful to IBS[1] and other digestive issues, as well as anything psychological. It seems very plausible that this was just the "honeymoon" effect.

1. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15916620/

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#182

Post by cpeterso »

justsocrateasin wrote: post #136

Sample size of 1 here, but hopefully worth the read. I got food poisoning while abroad shortly after college, and took some shitty OTC antibiotics. I was low-grade sick for ~1 month, and when I came home I started developing IBS which got progressively worse over the next few years. FODMAP saved me, but at the detriment of needing to eliminate a lot of foods that I loved eating. Recently I started eating 2tbps of chi…

I’m glad you were able to recover. What prompted you to try chia seeds, in particular?

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#183

Post by divbzero »

tekno45 wrote: post #163
zackmorris wrote: post #138

I finally beat my digestive issues and chronic fatigue (physical depression) which lasted 3+ years from 2019-2021. Without getting too far into it, here's the stuff that finally worked, weighted by immediacy on a scale of 10: - 10: Eating a serving of Brussels sprouts, preferably daily - 10: Taking about 3 psyllium husk capsules occasionally with FODMAP and spicy meals - 10: Taking a digestive enzyme occasionally wit…

Gonna be honest. I love brussel sprouts but i found a TON of dirt in my last batch and have been super apprehensive. Just wondering. How do you clean your brussel sprouts? I roast mine with olive oil and fairly simple spices.

Brussel sprouts grow on stalks and not in the ground like carrots or onions or potatoes. You may have gotten unlucky with an unusually dirty batch, but rinsing with water should be enough in any case.

Roasting with bacon is a delicious, if less healthy, alternative.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#184

Post by chasebank »

joedevon wrote: post #134
chasebank wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a sample size of 1 as well. Probiotics didn’t help me but I’ve dealt with digestive issues for the last 4 years after a bout of food poisoning. I used to think gut flora / microbiome was quackery but I recently did an oral FMT (fecal microbiata transplant) the results were unreal. For reference, I’m a 37 y/o fit male and donor was 18 y/o female. After 2nd week I got the deepest sleep since I was a child (slept…

I've been fascinated by FMT, but it also grosses me out. I'm super curious, was it tough mentally to take the pill if it was a pill?

Not at all. They are just 00 size capsules and easy to swallow. Didn't bother me one bit. Personally, the idea of consuming someone else's poop is less bothersome than taking most pharma pills. Terrible logic, but that's just how I feel.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#185

Post by divbzero »

jollybean wrote: post #179
DoreenMichele wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Contrary to popular opinion, it is possible for an individual to somewhat confidently conclude that X helps them as an individual without checking it against large randomized trials. It's handwavy about some things but it doesn't assert anything beyond "I did this list of things and I, as an individual, am better now."

Sure, but 'I did these 10 things at the same time'? ... 'this is how they worked, to varying degree'? One thing I can understand. Was sick -> did this -> was better. But a 'regime', it feels like infomercial logic though I doubt doubt the author's motivations.

It’s not as rigorous as a controlled double-blind clinical trial, but you can definitely experiment as an individual by trying different combinations on different days and looking for patterns. One example is the common recommendation to introduce new foods to babies one by one so any food allergies are more apparent.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#186

Post by l8rlump »

DantesKite wrote: post #159
zackmorris wrote: post #138

I finally beat my digestive issues and chronic fatigue (physical depression) which lasted 3+ years from 2019-2021. Without getting too far into it, here's the stuff that finally worked, weighted by immediacy on a scale of 10: - 10: Eating a serving of Brussels sprouts, preferably daily - 10: Taking about 3 psyllium husk capsules occasionally with FODMAP and spicy meals - 10: Taking a digestive enzyme occasionally wit…

I can give some context for what may have happened because I went through something similar. My two cents is the biggest factors were the keto and the stress. A low carb, high fat diet does not traditionally feature intact plant cell walls, or what we otherwise know as "fiber". There are literally thousands of different of variations of "fiber" of which we have catalogued only a few, but these structures feed the mic…

> for whatever reason taking the supplement seems to work better than exposing yourself to sunlight

On the other hand, this was an interesting read recently:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31471416

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#188

Post by blindmute »

0daystock wrote: post #54
wtk wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the market is flooded with supplements, while you can help your gut bacteria with natural products like kefir (kind of buttermilk), kombucha, kimchi like products. I happen to love all those mentioned.

Those are all very bad recommendations. Buttermilk is loaded with cholesterol and saturated fat, kombucha with sugar, and fermented vegetables like kimchi have shown to increase prostate adenocarcinoma. You want to regulate your gut flora with a variety of whole plant-based foods, not quick fixes like pills and a jar of stinky cabbage.

> milk is loaded with cholesterol and saturated fat

Neither of these are bad for you, just don't be obese

> kombucha with sugar

Every bottle of kombucha I have ever seen has at most 16g of non-added sugar from fruits, the same as a banana

> fermented vegetables like kimchi have shown to increase prostate adenocarcinoma

Fake / trash science. More studies say the opposite than agree with this

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#189

Post by blindmute »

0daystock wrote: post #55
woliveirajr wrote: post #8

> Probiotics maintained microbial diversity and increased the abundance of the genus Lactobacillus, indicating the effectivity of the probiotics to increase specific taxa. The increase of the Lactobacillus was associated with decreased depressive symptoms in the probiotics group. [0] So, yogurt everybody ? [1] [2] [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41398-022-01977-z [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogurt#Health_r…

As long as it's not cow's milk yogurt, sure. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20389060/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23415826/ Also, the citations in the wikipedia article are hilariously biased. > Presented at the satellite symposium “First Global Summit on the Health Effects of Yogurt." The conference was organized by the ASN, the Nutrition Society, Danone Institute International, and the Dairy Research Institute…

Somehow I remain skeptical that the dairy (and meat) that humans have been eating for literally tens of thousands of years is causing depression and widespread health concerns. I think it's a wee bit more likely that when you're morbidly obese with diabetes, like in that study, and you feel better after eating a controlled, healthy, low-calorie diet, it can be attributed to factors more relevant than veganism.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#190

Post by jollybean »

DoreenMichele wrote: post #180
jollybean wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but 'I did these 10 things at the same time'? ... 'this is how they worked, to varying degree'? One thing I can understand. Was sick -> did this -> was better. But a 'regime', it feels like infomercial logic though I doubt doubt the author's motivations.

It's a single comment covering an unspecified time frame with no explanation of how much research, tracking, etc was involved. It's the TLDR of their experience in hopes of nudging people in the right direction and saying, in essence, "anecdotally, fixing my own gut issues has correlated with fewer mood issues. Here is some food for thought if you want to try to do the same." The OP isn't selling anything, so it's no…

It's a very thorough comment, iterating very specifically a dozen 'medical solutions' down to a 'weighted rating out of 10' (!) of the value each one of them.

Again - I'm not doubting anyone's intentions, but I'm fully doubting the veracity of all of this.

'Self Medicating N = 1 Belief' - is extremely common among people.

Even among diligent, intelligent people who actually can and do 'research'.

But with a single 'blind spot' in self awareness, it goes awry with these kinds of 'beliefs'.

Everyone who works out at the gym consistently has a 'belief' about a lot of things.

There are dozens of magazines and quasi health magazine's offering these kinds of solutions.

It's frankly as old as time and probably more common than not.

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