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Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

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Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#101

Post by thrwy_918 »

willseth wrote: post #90
ianstormtaylor wrote: post #24

Anyone have recommendations for which probiotics are the best ones to buy? I always get confused while looking at all the various options, and this seems like a good place to find someone who’s done a lot of research.

Visibiome has OTC and rx-only probiotics products, the latter of which is used to treat severe IBS and ulcerative colitis. Their OTC products are also very high potency and regularly recommended by doctors as well. Also, nicer grocery stores typically have a refrigerated probiotics section, and those are typically good brands as well (Garden of Life is one). Generally, shelf stable probiotics are less potent and vari…

>Visibiome has OTC and rx-only probiotics products

It's worth pointing out that the actual biotic payload is exactly the same between the two products, only the dosage is different.

In other words, taking two packets of the regular unflavored powder should deliver the same payload as one packet of the rx-only "extra-strength" powder.

I suspect the only reason the higher strength product exists, and is rx-only, is so that it can be covered by health insurance for some people.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#102

Post by pbhjpbhj »

chasebank wrote: post #53
SaintGhurka wrote: post #21

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

I have a sample size of 1 as well. Probiotics didn’t help me but I’ve dealt with digestive issues for the last 4 years after a bout of food poisoning. I used to think gut flora / microbiome was quackery but I recently did an oral FMT (fecal microbiata transplant) the results were unreal. For reference, I’m a 37 y/o fit male and donor was 18 y/o female. After 2nd week I got the deepest sleep since I was a child (slept…

I have no medical training. This is speculation only. Consult a doctor.

Assuming the translated gut flora to be the cause of your improvement then I'd look at two things. What bacteria the beneficial transplant contains, you can have it assayed (I believe it's called a bacterial culture test) and then find a cheaper source for that bacteria. Two, what the diet of the donor is, so you can try to replicate the beneficial environment in which those particular bacteria flourish.

AIUI, your own bacterial flora are in competition with the transplant. So, I wonder if a doctor would prescribe antibiotics (or something else) to wipe out your own flora, then the new flora (possibly with a diet change) would have a greater chance of taking hold?

I wonder also if the causal flow is different here, that there's maybe an underlying condition that is causing the gut flora to not prosper (like making an excessively acid environment).

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#103

Post by Darkphibre »

Auracle wrote: post #93
phkahler wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem I have with "take probiotics" is that there are hundreds or even thousands of species of bacteria that could be classified as "probiotics". Which ones of these have positive influence on mood or physical health? How can a person know what to expect from a bottle of stuff at Whole Foods or where-ever?

I wonder if prebiotics are a better choice, with fecal transplants done for when you have a real issue. For what it’s worth, and doctors obviously don’t suggest this, you can easily do a fecal transplant at home. By “easily” I mean that the process is simple, not that it isn’t super gross.

No lie, I've done exactly this before.

Something was coming up that'd wipe out my intestinal flora, and I'd been feeling extremely healthy lately. So I preserved a chilled sample of the 'good stuff.'

Usually I'd have all sorts of problems as the gut bacteria sorted itself out, but this time it was... smooth sailing.

Sure, it's... WEIRD in the extreme to actually perform. But I can't argue with the results.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#104

Post by [deleted] »

guerrilla wrote: post #89
encryptluks2 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm speaking from anecdotal evidence here but I have seen a lot of research that indicate the digestive tract is basically the primary storage of serotonin. And whenever I get chronically depressed I also get chronically constipated. I don't necessarily think probiotics are a magical cure but I think anything that aids with digestion and moving things through the digestive tract can help.

> the digestive tract is basically the primary storage of serotonin. What does this even mean? Monoamines aren't fat or glycogen stored in the body. The digestive tract has serotonin receptors, like the brain, but they differ in purpose entirely. Monamines are just messenger chemicals. Their context determines the actual message. I get it... it makes sense, humans are basically worms and worms are basically digestive…

[deleted]

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#105

Post by harigov »

I have always had a significant mood boost from taking probiotics - either from food or as supplements. Some forms of probiotics make me overly happy to the point that it is detrimental to my life. Recently I started taking these probiotics - seed.com - and find them reasonably balanced. You will see improved mood and sleep for a few days but then not much - not sure why it doesn't persist. I am still continuing with these because they seem to be helping with other digestive issues. I also notice way more mood improvement when eating Sauerkraut so try to eat a couple of tablespoons of it everyday. I have experimented enough with microbiome related stuff that I am fully convinced they play a major role in ones health (including mood and energy). That said, there is way more to it than simply the species of bacteria. Where those bacteria are located in the gut (small or large intestine or colon), what other species are there, your genetics, your diet, lifestyle, your psyche, etc., all play a part in their functioning. I wish there was a more "big-data" approach to figuring out things than researching one species at a time.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#106

Post by InfiniteRand »

One thing with depression is that every ache and discomfort gets amplified and seems endless and indicative of the terrible nature of existence.

So taking care of yourself in numerous ways is helpful. Not sure if that’s all that’s going on with the probiotic link but it’s a factor.

Unfortunately, depression saps your will to care for yourself so eating better, exercising, sleeping better are all easier said than done

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#107

Post by Darkphibre »

Mountain_Skies wrote: post #69
loufe wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was a fascinating read, thank you for sharing. Were there really no lasting effects? I'm curious why the introduced bacteria didn't flourish and permanently change your microbiome. Can anybody weigh in?

It might be that they have to hit a certain critical mass to become self-sustaining. Or they require a particular environment to thrive, which exists in the donor but not in the donee. It's such a new field, at least for prescriptive medicine, that it'll probably be a while before we get a good base of understand of what lives in our gut, what it does, and how to keep it healthy.

My money is indeed on the environment. You'd want to know what that donor was eating, and try to replicate it.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#108

Post by [deleted] »

harigov wrote: post #105

I have always had a significant mood boost from taking probiotics - either from food or as supplements. Some forms of probiotics make me overly happy to the point that it is detrimental to my life. Recently I started taking these probiotics - seed.com - and find them reasonably balanced. You will see improved mood and sleep for a few days but then not much - not sure why it doesn't persist. I am still continuing with…

[deleted]

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#109

Post by Darkphibre »

SaintGhurka wrote: post #21

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

What's the brand/dosage you use? There's so many different brands out there.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#110

Post by pinko »

phkahler wrote: post #87
SaintGhurka wrote: post #21

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

The problem I have with "take probiotics" is that there are hundreds or even thousands of species of bacteria that could be classified as "probiotics". Which ones of these have positive influence on mood or physical health? How can a person know what to expect from a bottle of stuff at Whole Foods or where-ever?

This may not be the answer you're looking for, but a good start is just to go with the ones that humans have been eating for millennia: whatever's in yogurt, sauerkraut, natto, fermented pickles, etc.
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