Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants • Hacker News Board

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#81

Post by 0daystock » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:17 PM UTC

monadgonad wrote: post #73

0daystock wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are all very bad recommendations. Buttermilk is loaded with cholesterol and saturated fat, kombucha with sugar, and fermented vegetables like kimchi have shown to increase prostate adenocarcinoma. You want to regulate your gut flora with a variety of whole plant-based foods, not quick fixes like pills and a jar of stinky cabbage.

Neither dietary cholesterol nor saturated fat nor sugar are bad in moderation, and that's completely orthogonal to the point of them providing probiotics.

Motor oil could provide probiotics if cultured - wouldn't make it healthy to consume, except in "moderation".

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#82

Post by SaintGhurka » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:21 PM UTC

dan_quixote wrote: post #74

SaintGhurka wrote: post #21

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

Mind sharing the brand/product?

Not at all, although I'm beginning to feel like a bit of a shill for the company.

I use "Culturelle Digestive Daily Probiotic".

My Dr. suggested either that or "Align". His comment on that was that they are delivery systems that are designed to let the bacteria survive the trip through the extreme environment of the stomach.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#83

Post by cortic » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:22 PM UTC

SaintGhurka wrote: post #21

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

There is a risk here we are not talking about; Some significant number of people die every year trying low risk solutions to high risk problems, while not being qualified to judge risk.

Probiotics, tinctures, vitamins and a gluten free diet basically killed a friends mother who spent years on these things while her undiagnosed stomach cancer spread everywhere.

The issue as i see it, is that there is profit to be made stringing people along from one 'cheap and harmless shot in the dark' to the next.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#84

Post by jokoon » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

goda90 wrote: post #30

jokoon wrote: post #11

The problem is that you have to take them often to colonize your gut, so it becomes a bit expensive, and it won't work on everyone, depending on their gut (since scientists know too little about the gut).

My hypothesis is that probiotics also need to be paired with the right diet. Bacteria needs to be fed, and needs to compete with the existing gut flora. If conditions aren't right, then they may never get a foothold.

Yeah and honestly I don't think there is a "right diet", because that might be highly dependent on the person, his/her food history, medical past, antibiotics, genetics, physical activity, the "initial gut bacteria" at birth, breast fed or not, etc.

Of course one can expect the usual "less sugar and fat, more macro nutrient", but unless there's proof and proper cause-effect relationships, it's going to be complex to draw conclusions. I'm not really sure that sugar causes a bad balance in the gut bacteria.

Not to mention all the chemicals in food and the environment that makes it almost impossible to track what could work and what would not.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#85

Post by encryptluks2 » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:27 PM UTC

cortic wrote: post #83

SaintGhurka wrote: post #21

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

There is a risk here we are not talking about; Some significant number of people die every year trying low risk solutions to high risk problems, while not being qualified to judge risk. Probiotics, tinctures, vitamins and a gluten free diet basically killed a friends mother who spent years on these things while her undiagnosed stomach cancer spread everywhere. The issue as i see it, is that there is profit to be made…

I don't think people are advocating to not see a doctor and discuss issues, but that there are intermediary steps that can be tried. Sorry to hear what happened to your friend's mom. I've seen the opposite where doctors will over prescribe and rarely ever test and that ends up killing people too. There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying supplemental treatments and it is really no different than OTC remedies that people spend billions on each year.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#86

Post by z3t4 » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:31 PM UTC

loufe wrote: post #59

chasebank wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a sample size of 1 as well. Probiotics didn’t help me but I’ve dealt with digestive issues for the last 4 years after a bout of food poisoning. I used to think gut flora / microbiome was quackery but I recently did an oral FMT (fecal microbiata transplant) the results were unreal. For reference, I’m a 37 y/o fit male and donor was 18 y/o female. After 2nd week I got the deepest sleep since I was a child (slept…

This was a fascinating read, thank you for sharing. Were there really no lasting effects? I'm curious why the introduced bacteria didn't flourish and permanently change your microbiome. Can anybody weigh in?

We are what we eat. Could try changing to the same diet as the donor...

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#87

Post by phkahler » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:36 PM UTC

SaintGhurka wrote: post #21

Sample size of 1 here, but just hear me out. Probiotics are a cheap and low-risk. If you have any general inflammation type issues that don't seem to have a cause, it might be worthwhile to just try probiotics. My Dr. told me to try them for a digestive issue - and they sort of helped that. But a handful of other things unexpectedly improved. Acid reflux went from really bad to barely noticeable, and my skin really c…

The problem I have with "take probiotics" is that there are hundreds or even thousands of species of bacteria that could be classified as "probiotics". Which ones of these have positive influence on mood or physical health? How can a person know what to expect from a bottle of stuff at Whole Foods or where-ever?

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#88

Post by encryptluks2 » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:37 PM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #65

cpncrunch wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN users seem to have a habit of posting crap science wrapped up in impressive sounding news stories, and it's kind of annoying. This is meant to be a group of intelligent people who should have the ability to click on the link to the article and look at the actual results.

The community has grown a lot. A ton of junk is posted (a ton, browse new for a while) but the real deal here is that sometimes enough people upvote the junk to frontpage it. I don't know why but I think sometimes some people just want certain things to be true.

I'm speaking from anecdotal evidence here but I have seen a lot of research that indicate the digestive tract is basically the primary storage of serotonin. And whenever I get chronically depressed I also get chronically constipated. I don't necessarily think probiotics are a magical cure but I think anything that aids with digestion and moving things through the digestive tract can help.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#89

Post by guerrilla » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

encryptluks2 wrote: post #88

guerrilla wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The community has grown a lot. A ton of junk is posted (a ton, browse new for a while) but the real deal here is that sometimes enough people upvote the junk to frontpage it. I don't know why but I think sometimes some people just want certain things to be true.

I'm speaking from anecdotal evidence here but I have seen a lot of research that indicate the digestive tract is basically the primary storage of serotonin. And whenever I get chronically depressed I also get chronically constipated. I don't necessarily think probiotics are a magical cure but I think anything that aids with digestion and moving things through the digestive tract can help.

> the digestive tract is basically the primary storage of serotonin.

What does this even mean? Monoamines aren't fat or glycogen stored in the body. The digestive tract has serotonin receptors, like the brain, but they differ in purpose entirely. Monamines are just messenger chemicals. Their context determines the actual message. I get it... it makes sense, humans are basically worms and worms are basically digestive tracts, that's our main thing, but taking this fact and making predictive science out of it is not trivial at all and anecdotal evidence means absolutely nothing so please never ever ever ever mention it in public forums.

Re: Probiotics can support the effect of antidepressants

#90

Post by willseth » Fri, Jun 17, 2022, 3:41 PM UTC

ianstormtaylor wrote: post #24

Anyone have recommendations for which probiotics are the best ones to buy? I always get confused while looking at all the various options, and this seems like a good place to find someone who’s done a lot of research.

Visibiome has OTC and rx-only probiotics products, the latter of which is used to treat severe IBS and ulcerative colitis. Their OTC products are also very high potency and regularly recommended by doctors as well.

Also, nicer grocery stores typically have a refrigerated probiotics section, and those are typically good brands as well (Garden of Life is one). Generally, shelf stable probiotics are less potent and varied in cultures than ones requiring refrigeration.