Live data from Hacker News

A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

nytimes.com

321–330 of 582 posts

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#321
There are a lot of cults in tech I would say, some more powerful than others. Early in my career I was invited to one by a friend under the pretense of a dinner with tech people. His sister was heavily involved in it. Surprisingly, I saw one of my senior colleagues who would later become my manager. The whole mood was…off in the house of one of the cult members. The leader was your stereotypical elder Australian dude that may or may not be a literal Satanist. They specifically send out very young girls to entice you, one of them would constantly put her hand on my leg after having just met me. She couldn’t have been older than 16 but claimed she was a freshman in college. Whole thing made me uncomfortable plus the forced positivity and artificial grins, I politely thanked them for dinner and bolted out of there.

As long as you don’t interact with them negatively you should be fine. If you should become one of the “goyim” to these groups then they will make your life miserable, and can even influence your career negatively for many years to come.

Many of them are also involved in occult practices that are horrifying.

They use children as a medium for occult rituals, but really it’s an excuse to sexually abuse and molest said children. It’s sickening but not much can be done to stop them.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#322

I had recently joined the Alphabet Workers Union, the union of now almost 1,000 workers across all Alphabet companies, including Google. I told them my story and they advised that I get a lawyer. Wait, Unions in the USA don't have a legal office to help workers with this kind of legal problems? Or is this specific to AWU?

The power of a Union is entirely in it's ability to negotiate with the company. Your typical union you hear on the news has the power it has because of the contract their members entered into with the Company. In the case of AWU they have not negotiated a contract with Google and as a result have no legal recourse. They only power they have is PR activity.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#323
post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we forbid Catholics for the same reason? Your answer lies in the distinction between cults and religion. In a nutshell, cults exert control over their members such that they compel them to behave contrary to their own interests. So the modern, practical answer to that question is: No. Your average Catholic is no threat and is very likely to be acting in their own interest, free of undue influence. The Cathol…

Catholicism has certainly compelled people to behave "contrary to their own interests" — e.g. preventing LGBT members from pursuing love, preventing unhappily-married people from divorcing, preventing women with dangerous or difficult pregnancies from seeking abortion; and that's without even referencing the many documented instances of child abuse — so I'm not sure that distinction makes a huge difference.

You bring up a good point, and I think what you're describing is more a type of coercion inherent to the teachings themselves that occur at a societal level. Distinct from the explicit, aggressive actions of members against other members typically found in cults.

However, what you describe certainly does create the conditions for that kind of behavior to occur organically. Lack of inclusion by nature will result in members being shunned. Personally I think religion in any form has zero business being exclusionary. The counter-argument there I suppose, would be that human group cohesion is—by and large—exclusionary in nature.

Perhaps morally there is little distinction, and organized religion has just had time to establish itself and exert power upon individuals in more subtle ways.

Circling back to the original topic: members of a small cult are far more likely to act—in unision—contrary to the interests of an organization that employs them.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Quoting the article: > "The group is well-documented: There are allegations of child abuse, human trafficking, forced abortions, and rape within the group, which has some 1,500 members worldwide and makes frequent prophecies of an imminent apocalypse." Those seem like issues for prosecutors to pursue, not for Google, unless the abuses were happening in Google offices or were sponsored by them.

From what I can see, those allegations were from the 90s, but still nothing seems to have been substantiated. I'm not saying I condone this cult, but I don't see how it was having any effect on his work. It didn't become a problem until he himself complained to another manager. I mean: if you're going to get worked up about cults, why the fuck are we all watching Top Gun? Shouldn't we be protesting or something? Scie…

Lot's of people do get worked up about scientology and I know people who won't watch Tom Cruise in a movie.

Besides, "$X group also does bad things" is a shitty cop out of an excuse to avoid doing something about another group.

There's probably not much Google can do about sexual assault/trafficking claims but they can do something about the hiring/firing practices along with crooked procurement practices.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#325

I had recently joined the Alphabet Workers Union, the union of now almost 1,000 workers across all Alphabet companies, including Google. I told them my story and they advised that I get a lawyer. Wait, Unions in the USA don't have a legal office to help workers with this kind of legal problems? Or is this specific to AWU?

Specific to AWU, I'd imagine - as it's not a "real union"

They are a real union. They just don't have a union contract with Google so it's a real union without teeth.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#326
post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At minimum Google could have investigated the odd clustering of employees that indicated some sort of nepotistic hiring practice. Of course they might be doing exactly that, but it's not the sort of thing they can really comment on. Edit: also the self-dealing on hundreds of thousands of dollars in wine.

Well if you expand that to a more generic "employees shouldn't be involved in hiring people who they know and associate with outside of work" then they'd have to fire half the company.

I work at a large tech firm and do interviewing and referrals almost routinely. I have regularly excused myself from the opportunity to sit on panels or provide feedback. I can provide all the input I want, but the people making the decision need to not be me or feel pressured by me. That's not a deep ethical challenge in the slightest.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when it's time to decide who gets to be a full time Googley Googler and who doesn't? This guy is competing against a bunch of people in a literal cult, what are his odds like? Isn't that harm enough?

Is hiring discrimination alleged to have happened? IIRC, the only decision that is noted in the blog post is the promotion of Dan (who is not in the cult), and the mysterious termination (for which we have no context or details, and the author feels it was orchestrated by the aforementioned Dan). While I'm sure there's lots of be concerned about with respect to the cult, I'm not sure it's Google's business to ask abo…

>Is hiring discrimination alleged to have happened

Yes, the potential nepotism involved with nearly 50% of a 25 person group all belonging to the cult.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#328
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specific to AWU, I'd imagine - as it's not a "real union"

They are a real union. They just don't have a union contract with Google so it's a real union without teeth.

It is not recognized or registered with the NLRB, they don't merely not have a contract - they do not have the legal right to negotiate a contract either.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? They're funneling company funds into the cult. It's literally embezzlement.

First, questioning whether someone read the article is against the guidelines. Please don't do that. Secondly, according to the article, "everyone" at Google knew, and he was a contractor. Once he raised his concerns, he did his duty. At that point, it's Google's business, and it's up to them to do something about it. Or not, if they'd rather. Maybe management liked their work and so looked past the "embezzlement", b…

>did his duty

Getting fired potentially in retaliation seems reasonable justification for speaking out beyond quietly reporting an incident to your employer.

Especially when the group involved is alleged to be intimidating people into silence. Seems like a great reason to instead shout about the issue quite loudly. Not least of which because small corruption may go side by side with larger corruption.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#330
post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How different is a cult from a corporation, really?

Having recovered from a high demand religion (which can be considered a modern cult depending on the definition), cults are very different from corporations. I feel like the best definition of a cult is any group that won't let you dissociate with your dignity intact. Most corporations are fine with that. Some aren't. So this suggests substantial differences.

I don't see that as a good definition of a cult
Post reply on HN