A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit • Hacker News Board

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#311

Post by mythrwy » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:09 PM UTC

reissbaker wrote: post #298

rl3 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Should we forbid Catholics for the same reason? Your answer lies in the distinction between cults and religion. In a nutshell, cults exert control over their members such that they compel them to behave contrary to their own interests. So the modern, practical answer to that question is: No. Your average Catholic is no threat and is very likely to be acting in their own interest, free of undue influence. The Cathol…

Catholicism has certainly compelled people to behave "contrary to their own interests" — e.g. preventing LGBT members from pursuing love, preventing unhappily-married people from divorcing, preventing women with dangerous or difficult pregnancies from seeking abortion; and that's without even referencing the many documented instances of child abuse — so I'm not sure that distinction makes a huge difference.

They might believe those things are in the persons interest though (I don't have an opinion either way other then... it's subjective).

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#312

Post by ineedasername » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

rendall wrote: post #210

Not really sure what the big deal is. Did the cult hurt this fellow? Abuse him? Discriminate against him? Mob him? No. The article really just talks about his own disapproval of the cult. It wasn't his business what these people got up to, frankly.

Seriously? Sex trafficking & abuse especially of underage people isn't a "live and let live" thing.

Neither are co-workers assigning hundreds of thousands of dollars in vendor contracts to themselves or their organization. If you think the author was too far removed from sex trafficking allegations to make an issue of it then this one is still very much appropriate to raise a red flag over.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#313

Post by runnerup » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:10 PM UTC

youessayyyaway wrote: post #286

wardedVibe wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus Christ dude, they're led by a man who routinely sexually assaults people. Being permissive about that is pretty damning. Kooky beliefs are one thing, but cults combine those with oppressive social structures. It's not that hard unless you're stuck in the middle of one with all it's filtering.

The similarities keep piling up! Google was co-founded by Sergey Brin, who insisted it was okay to screw his employees in the company massage room because "they're my employees". https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2018/07/valley-of-genius-exc...

Thank you for this. I’ve lost (fatally) a dear friend to a polyamorous relationship between herself and her direct manager + manager’s wife at Google.

I’m not trying to claim it’s endemic at Google, I truly have no idea. But mini cults can happen inside corporations.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#314

Post by tomrod » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

permo-w wrote: post #273

wardedVibe wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jesus Christ dude, they're led by a man who routinely sexually assaults people. Being permissive about that is pretty damning. Kooky beliefs are one thing, but cults combine those with oppressive social structures. It's not that hard unless you're stuck in the middle of one with all it's filtering.

How different is a cult from a corporation, really?

Having recovered from a high demand religion (which can be considered a modern cult depending on the definition), cults are very different from corporations.

I feel like the best definition of a cult is any group that won't let you dissociate with your dignity intact. Most corporations are fine with that. Some aren't. So this suggests substantial differences.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#315

Post by notacoward » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

saagarjha wrote: post #188

notacoward wrote: post #173

Then there's this bit toward the end. > I had recently joined the Alphabet Workers Union, the union of now almost 1,000 workers across all Alphabet companies Doesn't that seem way more likely to explain the sudden firing?

I don’t think you want the explanation for a termination to be “because they joined a union”.

Of course you don't. It's blindingly obvious that they'd never say that. Instead they'd make up another excuse, or say nothing ... which they did. The facts fit the theory, which is not the same as proof but that shallow dismissal sure isn't disproof.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#316

Post by blip54321 » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:11 PM UTC

Just to clarify: Federal law prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion.

Google cannot take action against religions (even cults) it disagrees with (even for valid reasons for disagreeing with them), unless it gets over a very high bar of impacting business behavior.

The other path leads to far worse outcomes.

Morally, we cannot judge what happened here without hearing from both sides. But if action is to be taken, it should be taken by a prosecutor, not an employer.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#317

Post by whimsicalism » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:14 PM UTC

blip54321 wrote: post #316

Just to clarify: Federal law prohibits discrimination on the basis of religion. Google cannot take action against religions (even cults) it disagrees with (even for valid reasons for disagreeing with them), unless it gets over a very high bar of impacting business behavior. The other path leads to far worse outcomes. Morally, we cannot judge what happened here without hearing from both sides. But if action is to be t…

I would say that this is evidence of discrimination on the basis of religion.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#318

Post by brianlash » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:15 PM UTC

aerovistae wrote: post #231

jancsika wrote: post #226

Just to clarify-- this article is about a modern religious cult. Modern religious cults are groups that use a whole host of well-known manipulative techniques to trap victims in insular groups which are then difficult to escape after the fact. Leaders of those groups directly abuse those victims physically and/or emotionally (and often drain their bank accounts as well). This isn't, "My parents are worried about my w…

I'm not sure what this comment was meant to clarify - the article already made this clear. If anything, your comment's reference to parents adds confusion rather than clarification.

Clarifications like these are helpful to people like me who tend to read the comments before making a decision to read the article.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#319

Post by decebalus1 » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:17 PM UTC

aerovistae wrote: post #231

jancsika wrote: post #226

Just to clarify-- this article is about a modern religious cult. Modern religious cults are groups that use a whole host of well-known manipulative techniques to trap victims in insular groups which are then difficult to escape after the fact. Leaders of those groups directly abuse those victims physically and/or emotionally (and often drain their bank accounts as well). This isn't, "My parents are worried about my w…

I'm not sure what this comment was meant to clarify - the article already made this clear. If anything, your comment's reference to parents adds confusion rather than clarification.

The comment section is muddying the waters by gathering all sorts of organizations or company cultures (OMG working at Facebook is a cuLT) or cliques under the 'cult' umbrella. I believe the comment is very valuable and should be at the top so that HNers who don't read the articles don't get the wrong impression about what this is about.

Re: A religious sect landed Google in a lawsuit

#320

Post by drewda » Thu, Jun 16, 2022, 11:18 PM UTC

jancsika wrote: post #226

Just to clarify-- this article is about a modern religious cult. Modern religious cults are groups that use a whole host of well-known manipulative techniques to trap victims in insular groups which are then difficult to escape after the fact. Leaders of those groups directly abuse those victims physically and/or emotionally (and often drain their bank accounts as well). This isn't, "My parents are worried about my w…

Thanks for making this point.

"Cult" as a word is used so often that many folks can lose sight of how actual cults can be such a huge challenge for some individuals, as well as those people's former friends and family.

More precise terms are "high-demand group" or "high-demand movement."

A group of passionate people may naturally spent a lot of time together. But a "high-demand group" will require that its participants cut off relationships with others outside of the group, commit their finances, and take actions that intentionally cut off bridges to the rest of the world.