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Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

isdotnetopen.com

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Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#311
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Closed source code definitely goes against the right to repair/own/modify.

Does it? If I sell you a widget and make available to you that widget's code, with strict prohibitions on copying and sharing, that's not open-source--but you can repair and modify it.

Right. But what happens if another customer has the same issue, you are prohibited from sharing it.

Once you deal with all edge cases. You end up with an OSS license.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#312
post #37

This sort of thing has been MS's playbook since I was a kid, or earlier. It surprises me that people are still surprised when things like this happen. I especially think someone with Miguel de Icaza's experience should know better[0]. It's interesting to see the generational difference here. Many of my somewhat-younger (even only by 7-10 years) programmer/techie friends just don't remember the Microsoft of the 80s an…

You act as if any public company doesn’t use open source more as marketing than anything else. Famously Google bragged about Android being “open” and then they slowly started moving anything that made Android “Android” to most people closed source.

As far as .Net being Windows only. MS doesn’t care about Windows anymore. It cares more about Azure, services, Office etc. There are more Linux instances on Azure than Windows instances.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#314
post #232

This is depressing. Last years `dotnet watch` and now this. I kind of went with the tide into the position I'm in (basically a C# developer for that side of my job) and as much as I was impressed with, "oh .NET is open source and cross platform now well done" and "oh, F# is a really nice language that can take advantage of the .NET ecosystem well done" it's things like THIS that make me want to run. I kind of want to…

How is Microsoft reducing your ability? No functionality got behind a paywall. On contrary, the VS Code plugin will actually get much better because of this effort - you can read the authors of OmniSharp clearly stating this[0], links are in the comments above. Microsoft spends a lot of money to bring you free experiences. Then it has the business on top of that where it offers better experience. Nothing different to what JetBrains does in this regard. Except that this fuels how you are able to fund the free experience in the first place.

[0] https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276#is...

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#315

.NET is the most open, non-trivial ecosystem I have ever participated in. I experienced 2 different problems with .NET (back in 2.x/3.x days), and was able to have interaction with the actual MS developers on their Github issue page without any sort of bullshit overhead process. Within days, I saw traction on my comments and within months I saw PRs that ultimately resolved the issue I presented. The following year, I…

Being devils advocate, there are other languages and ecosystems significantly more open than .NET.

Microsoft has a stranglehold not just on the language, but the runtime, build tools, and even the most popular frameworks to do anything useful. And they have shown multiple times how management decisions from various business units at Microsoft can be applied unilaterally to their ecosystem.

I'm also confused by the "non-trivial ecosystem" goal posts here.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#316

.NET is the most open, non-trivial ecosystem I have ever participated in. I experienced 2 different problems with .NET (back in 2.x/3.x days), and was able to have interaction with the actual MS developers on their Github issue page without any sort of bullshit overhead process. Within days, I saw traction on my comments and within months I saw PRs that ultimately resolved the issue I presented. The following year, I…

Everyone who understands .NET a bit praises the engineering but has hard times with strategic management calls.

Tim Heuer the guy who wrote the GitHub issue is a high ranking guy and was explicit protected by Miguel de Icaza as not being the evil one. ... Means the call was made so high up in the ranks that this is not about engineering, daily work, etc anymore. This is a decision made by people who are counting beans.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#317
post #287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it does have to be like that now. Because if you're not growing (not growing the bottom line), you're almost certainly losing market position to other companies that are chasing growth. If there was some group altruism that made all companies in a sector collectively say "ok, we're big enough now, let's hit pause", then companies could afford to be a bit more about being good for the sake of being good. This is o…

Some anti trust laws with teeth would help move us in the right direction!

Anti-trust aimed at individuals is called taxation. Being able to shelter wealth accumulation through loopholes that only benefit rich people asset classes is so obviously classist (and tacitly ageist against youth since it’s all old people calling these shots).

Their ad and marketing budgets are basically to woo public opinion into belief billionaires should exist, however.

Look at the Coinbase story; employee and investor wealth gone. CEO wealth intact. And society gains little to nothing net new from enriching that fraud.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#318
post #37

This sort of thing has been MS's playbook since I was a kid, or earlier. It surprises me that people are still surprised when things like this happen. I especially think someone with Miguel de Icaza's experience should know better[0]. It's interesting to see the generational difference here. Many of my somewhat-younger (even only by 7-10 years) programmer/techie friends just don't remember the Microsoft of the 80s an…

Opinions like this have always been weird to me. Not wrong, but weird. Any contribution that M$ (remember when people would sub the S for a dollar sign?) makes to open source or open standards is to support their own bottom line and we shouldn't expect anything else. The directors have a legal responsibility to the company and to boost the share price, not for the betterment of humanity. To this effect, companies wil…

"How monotonously alike all the great tyrants and conquerors have been; how gloriously different are the saints." - C.S. Lewis

I still recall people fawning over how Google was going to be "different" in 2006, and how it was going to save us from Microsoft. Nowadays, they are essentially what MS was in its' heyday. Blind faith in corporations is not the way forward.

I've always understood the hacker ethos to have strong tenets of working towards decentralized power structures through tech. Nowadays, that idea feels farther away even on a site like this one.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#319
post #55

The actual announcement is here: https://github.com/omnisharp/omnisharp-vscode/issues/5276 It's not quite as dramatic as the OP is making it out to be.

The web page is FUD, but the GitHub issue is describing yet another top level management decision which is totally not helpful source code wise and reputation wise. Creating a bridging host component for tools with multiple intellisense or debugging providers is okay, but the host must be open source to control what is happening. This is a strategic move to unify VS and VS Code ... And the open source debacle is the…

What does an IDE have to do with a software framework? Besides Java and eclipse, what other frameworks provide an open source IDE?

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#320
post #292

yesterday it was the debugger, then the hotreload, now it's the language server people are still blind

Accepting the truth is harder than learning a new language/ecosystem. Some people love .NET/C# so much that they're willing to pay a hefty premium to stick with it (which is perfectly fine) But some of those people are also coming out and doing mental gymnastics to defend this decision as something other than what is actually is: an opportunistic price hike (and likely, the first of many)

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