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Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

isdotnetopen.com

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Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#21

Post by happymellon »

DeathArrow wrote: post #13
happymellon wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is absolutely awful. That doesn't make Microsoft's double-talk okay, Apple never pretended to :heart: opensource.

>Apple never pretended to :heart: opensource. But they did. They claimed part of Mac OS, Darwin, is open source. Like Google like to brag about Android being Open Source even if you have to put a ton of proprietary software on top of the open source parts to make it usable.

Claiming that part of Darwin is opensource, which it was, is not quite the same thing as claiming to love opensource, and yet slowly close it up once you have mindshare like with VSCode.

Apple didn't take ownership and then start closing CUPS, but they have also never pretended to be a friend of OpenSouce. They haven't produced anything opensource since then. There have been a couple of projects, like their rebranding of KHTML that suited their purposes but they never donated time or money back, or even pretended to help upstream.

If you look at the Asahi Linux on M processors, Apple don't hinder and may have arguably done things in a way to not block them but they certainly have not helped or even claimed that it was a good thing.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#22

Post by thejosh »

chenzhekl wrote: post #15

This is exactly the same as what MS did for the Python extension when the open-source LSP was replaced by the proprietary Pylance. I get the feeling that MS becomes more and more likes Google. For example, on Android, the core experience is provided by GMS while the AOSP is provided as an open-source core. In terms of VSCode, the core editor is free and open-source, but some key experience is baked by proprietary com…

Yep, they saw no real backlash to doing this for the Python one, then decided to do it here as well.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#24

Post by segphault »

Microsoft can't have it both ways. Crippling open tooling in order to extract more revenue or drive lock-in will undermine their efforts to make .NET relevant outside of the niche occupied by traditional .NET shops.

I can't imagine that there's a business justification for this decision that is compelling enough to offset the long-term damage to .NET adoption and community trust.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#25

Post by thejosh »

bmitc wrote: post #4
rvz wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Why does Microsoft get labeled like this while Apple, one of the most brutally closed off companies, is loved by developers? Microsoft is very responsive on GitHub issues I have filed, and I have benefited a lot from their open source offerings, namely VS Code and F#.

Loved by developers how? Because they own Macbooks?

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#26

Post by askvictor »

happymellon wrote: post #11
ig-88ms wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people are still living in the 90s and even the best developers just love to gobble up Apple's propaganda bullshit.

Apple is absolutely awful. That doesn't make Microsoft's double-talk okay, Apple never pretended to :heart: opensource.

They did kind of head that way in the early days of OSX, to try to bootstrap a development community by being close enough to Linux to make it easy enough to switch. I'd probably characterise them as having an abusive relationship with Open source.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#29

Post by ozim »

bmitc wrote: post #4
rvz wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Why does Microsoft get labeled like this while Apple, one of the most brutally closed off companies, is loved by developers? Microsoft is very responsive on GitHub issues I have filed, and I have benefited a lot from their open source offerings, namely VS Code and F#.

While Swift might be open source - to effectively do something with it you still need to buy a Macbook or even iPhone, which as we know are expensive.

To release any application in Apple ecosystem you have to pay for developer account each year. You might play around with stuff - but I don't believe anyone would be developing on their platform just for fun.

Microsoft gives stuff away for free - loads of stuff - there is much more people who will play/try out/start some projects with free stuff. But then the more people the easier is to see ones that are not happy and would like more. Then this mass of people is active on multiple forums, not only on .NET dev subreddits.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#30

Post by Lio »

_old_dude_ wrote: post #20
Aloha wrote: post #9

I'm somewhat confused what's going on here.

Microsoft is starting to port VS studio (IntelliSense) which is proprietary to VS code which is opensource. Current C# plugin (Omnisharp) is opensource, so they announce that it will be replaced by a closed source selector that let you choose the opensource or the proprietary plugin with the proprietary as default. It's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish just in front of our eyes, so opensource people are pissed.

Worth pointing out that VS Code is not really open source.

The builds are proprietary.

It’s based on an open source core but the builds can include anything that Microsoft thinks will be commercially useful to it.

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