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Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

isdotnetopen.com

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Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#11

Post by happymellon »

ig-88ms wrote: post #5
bmitc wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does Microsoft get labeled like this while Apple, one of the most brutally closed off companies, is loved by developers? Microsoft is very responsive on GitHub issues I have filed, and I have benefited a lot from their open source offerings, namely VS Code and F#.

Because people are still living in the 90s and even the best developers just love to gobble up Apple's propaganda bullshit.

Apple is absolutely awful.

That doesn't make Microsoft's double-talk okay, Apple never pretended to :heart: opensource.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#12

Post by egeozcan »

bmitc wrote: post #4
rvz wrote: post #3

Quoted post unavailable.

Why does Microsoft get labeled like this while Apple, one of the most brutally closed off companies, is loved by developers? Microsoft is very responsive on GitHub issues I have filed, and I have benefited a lot from their open source offerings, namely VS Code and F#.

Apple is upfront with what's going on. You may not like it, but they are "honest" about it (with the disclaimer that corporations cannot be honest etc.).

It, however, leaves a bad taste if you are running an open-source show, with the marketing to match but it becomes clear and clear that it's mostly for show.

Perhaps one can make the same argument about Apple and privacy (that it's just for show) but Apple somehow could make it one of their value proposition, while IMHO Microsoft failed to do that with their open-source expansion. Always felt like a half-hearted attempt.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#13

Post by DeathArrow »

happymellon wrote: post #11
ig-88ms wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because people are still living in the 90s and even the best developers just love to gobble up Apple's propaganda bullshit.

Apple is absolutely awful. That doesn't make Microsoft's double-talk okay, Apple never pretended to :heart: opensource.

>Apple never pretended to :heart: opensource.

But they did. They claimed part of Mac OS, Darwin, is open source. Like Google like to brag about Android being Open Source even if you have to put a ton of proprietary software on top of the open source parts to make it usable.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#15

Post by chenzhekl »

This is exactly the same as what MS did for the Python extension when the open-source LSP was replaced by the proprietary Pylance. I get the feeling that MS becomes more and more likes Google. For example, on Android, the core experience is provided by GMS while the AOSP is provided as an open-source core. In terms of VSCode, the core editor is free and open-source, but some key experience is baked by proprietary components (e.g., Remote plugins, Pylance, etc.). And the trending is that more and more plugins which are controlled by MS are moving towards to a mixture of open-source code and proprietary components.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#17

Post by oleksandr_kot »

I've been using Omnisharp-VsCode extension for years on my daily job. It's far from ideal, especially the initial setup experience.

I think here's what's going on: It appears VS Code is Microsoft's main IDE and C# is the main language. Not surprised they decided to obtain more control over the integration to improve the experience. In terms of management, it's always easier to cut all the external dependencies (community) and "just do it", even though it's absolutely against the open source spirit and definitely will hurt their community relationships and the trust.

Can't say the decision is an absolute evil.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#18

Post by pjmlp »

chenzhekl wrote: post #15

This is exactly the same as what MS did for the Python extension when the open-source LSP was replaced by the proprietary Pylance. I get the feeling that MS becomes more and more likes Google. For example, on Android, the core experience is provided by GMS while the AOSP is provided as an open-source core. In terms of VSCode, the core editor is free and open-source, but some key experience is baked by proprietary com…

It appears offering free beer forever isn't sustainable, even when one has deep pockets, go figure.

Re: Despite best efforts .NET is still not an open platform

#20

Post by _old_dude_ »

Aloha wrote: post #9

I'm somewhat confused what's going on here.

Microsoft is starting to port VS studio (IntelliSense) which is proprietary to VS code which is opensource.

Current C# plugin (Omnisharp) is opensource, so they announce that it will be replaced by a closed source selector that let you choose the opensource or the proprietary plugin with the proprietary as default.

It's Embrace, Extend, Extinguish just in front of our eyes, so opensource people are pissed.

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