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As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

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Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Postdoc in Germany sees around 2400± after tax per month

For how long? That is the question.

Mine was in Spain, where I am from. And I also had kids at the time, which made the lack of life planning even more dangerous.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#302
post #3

I spent 4 + 1 (extra year) going for the PhD. Getting funding for anything was nothing short of nightmare and the workload was (obviously) very high. Eventually I decided to scrap those 5 years for a triple salary as a junior developer and had a successful career since. Is casual coding more interesting than research/teaching - no, but staying in academia requires way more altruism than I could find in me. I also sti…

Almost the same experience, 4 years. I've even stayed after it for another ~3 years because it was ~3x pay as a tech for doing less restricted stuff (no need to convince my committee what I do is important) and learning to run essentially a mini-startup within a lab, while being restricted in my portability due to visa policies.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#303

Sorry to sound elitist, but no reasonable phd graduate that wants to pursue academia would ever want to do their PhD at Clemson university. Only possible exception would be that PI has done Nobel prize level work or the candidate has personal reasons to be in South Carolina. For perspective postdocs, it’s not about money, job security, or job environment . It’s first and foremost potential to be a leader in their fie…

This is "saying the quiet part out loud" in academia. For engineering undergrad, your in-state university (ABET accredited) will usually be your best cost/benefit option (unless you're going to MIT, Stanford, or, for CS only, CMU). For grad school, I believe you'd want to think very carefully about the opportunity cost (and what you want your PhD for) before going anywhere outside of the top 20 (or even top 15) schoo…

Academia beyond postdoc is so competitive that even being in top 5 school is not enough information to decide whether it is a good idea.

Even within Harvard, the percentage of postdocs getting faculty positions is low.

One needs to calculate essentially how likely you will get a top publication in that lab.

The arithmetic is something like for a research group, what is the average number of top publications per year per postdoc. Many top labs at Harvard don’t do well with this metric because they have like 20 postdocs and 1 top paper a year.

Another metric is what fraction of postdocs end up in good faculty jobs.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#304
lack of funding + way too many people doing phds = shitty job market. there is at least 10x more phds than the current system can comfortably sustain. i would love to see the budgets 10x and salaries 2x but since there is a fat chance of that happening i would recommend everyone to steer clear of academia...

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#305
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't even know where to begin...but according to this [1] less than 5% of students in the US are international students. 1 - https://www.fwd.us/news/international-students/

"The dearth of Americans is even more pronounced in hot STEM fields like computer science, which serve as talent pipelines for the likes of Google, Amazon, Facebook and Microsoft: About 64 percent of doctoral candidates and almost 68 percent in master’s programs last year were international students, according to an annual survey of American and Canadian universities by the Computing Research Association. In comparis…

> Note that the definition of "international student" excludes those with permanent visas. The number of foreign born PhD students is therefore significantly higher than 64%. Don't know if there are any stats for citizen/non-citizen share of PhDs though.

Why are you interested in the percentage of foreign born PhD students? You realize that a lot of Americans are "foreign born". It seems like an archaic way of thinking about things.

"International student" should indeed exclude those who are permanent residents. Which means they have been living here permanently before becoming a student, likely grew up in America, or just waiting for the citizenship, etc. "International student" means someone who moved here to study.

I'm assuming good intentions, but want to make sure we're not intentionally trying to gatekeep what it means to be an American.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#306
Why would anybody want to become an academic? Low pay, crazy politics and bureaucracy, long hours, constantly chasing grants, the threat of lawsuits from students who might “feel violated” by something you say, the demand to increase your external funding every year, the routine science malpractice, the very low chance that anybody will actually read the papers you produce etc. etc.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#307
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who needs a PhD for a "junior python developer role". Is it really necessary. This "python developer" idea sounds like it only applies to a small slice of PhD programs, notably the ones focused solely on computers. For example, what percentage of PhDs in molecular biology choose to become "junior python developer". When someone who believes a computer performing pattern recognition equates to a child having feelings…

People get PHD’s because they love the subject matter and can get loans etc. But they then have a PHD that might not actually be worth anything and still need to eat. Assuming just because you have a PHD means you need to use it is a sunk cost fallacy. Starting over can be a completely rational choice.

Does sunk cost fallacy apply to an assumption that because one has an ability to program a computer one must use it, i.e., demand pay for time spent on programming, e.g., with the end goal of coercing people to surrender personal data and/or click on ads.

Perhaps the value of a PhD is not limited to its "market value". I hope that part of the intrinsic value of a degree is an ability to think critically, unlike the "senior software engineer" example I cited, for which the "market value" is probably quite high. Sometimes markets are not rational. Myself, I do not care what any job market suggests. To me, education has value, both for the individual and for society at large.

"Tech" companies are not well-known for fostering crtitical thinking ability. Most of the world is eating, and feeding families, without knowing how to program computers. It has been that way since the dawn of humankind.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#308
post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People get PHD’s because they love the subject matter and can get loans etc. But they then have a PHD that might not actually be worth anything and still need to eat. Assuming just because you have a PHD means you need to use it is a sunk cost fallacy. Starting over can be a completely rational choice.

Does sunk cost fallacy apply to an assumption that because one has an ability to program a computer one must use it, i.e., demand pay for time spent on programming, e.g., with the end goal of coercing people to surrender personal data and/or click on ads. Perhaps the value of a PhD is not limited to its "market value". I hope that part of the intrinsic value of a degree is an ability to think critically, unlike the "…

The majority of programmers work outside of the personal data collection and or clicking on ads sides of things. Advertising supported businesses are a fairly trivial slice of the economy, as should be obvious because it’s ultimately dependent on advertising spend from other companies.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Industry solved it as many times as the academics have

Fermat's last theorem has been solved back in the 90s. But it's obviously just one example to illustrate the main point, it's not about whether it specifically has been solved or not.

And also what industry would pay someone to solve that problem. Super hard problem of little industrial value.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#310

Make it make sense. Offer Postdocs an actual career path not based on broken tenure and disposable adjunct professor roles, with hundreds if not thousands of applicants. Why would someone, with any field of study, be a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role? Moreso, post doc'ing for the wrong professor can ruin your career, why risk that eithe…

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