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Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

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Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#171

Post by Kell »

morsch wrote: post #143
Kell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "I don't mean that as a slight, I do think it's a little silly to get upset about Ubuntu's default WM and claim to 'understand UNIX'" you mean it's possible for a hacker to change back from Unity to another interface. I must concur... but dissent on the fact that doing so is easy for a regular geek. It's not. It may be easy to the people that do ""understand Unix"". But for myself, I found that it was easier sa…

Huh? You don't need the terminal. You can chose the environment in the login screen, there's a drop down menu besides your name. Not exactly intuitive, but very easy to find out using Google or a forum. If you want Gnome 3, you can install it from the repositories (again, no terminal required, at least not in 11.10), and it'll be there in the drop down menu. Zero understanding of *nix required here.

Yes I was speaking of Gnome3. And No. It's not only "Install it from the repositories". Maybe it worked easily for you.. but for me t'was horrible. And yeah, I ended up having to mess around in the terminal and lynx to solve the problem (I had no other computer and was not going to always reboot to windows to Google something while tidying everything up). But yeah you can always say that's because I'm a noob, and was unable to do it right... but that's exactly the problem. A "newbie" should not have that kind of problem.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#172

Post by drdaeman »

I believe, the problem is, various implementations of the same subsystems do not cooperate well (if they even cooperate at all). For example, NetworkManager does not cooperate with /etc/network/* or /etc/ppp/* or wpa_supplicant — it either steps away and does nothing or uses its own configuration (stored in completely separate manner). Sure, some approaches work (say, NM calls pppd, thus /etc/ppp/options have some effect), while some don't (good luck teaching NM to run PPPoE over 802.11 bridge).

This leads to a problem that one just can't have easily co-existing multiple approaches to work and configuration (i.e. "Ubuntu newbie" vs "seasoned GNU/Linux guru" ways). You have either one or another, and switching between is a pain.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#173

Post by jiggy2011 »

vacri wrote: post #168
wes-exp wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. At least with Ubuntu, there is a large enough user base that there is software available for it that is tested and actually works (conveniently available as a binary .deb). Also, bugs tend to be identified and fixed, again due to the size of the community. If you run into a problem, often times there is already a forum post somewhere with a solution. If developers are to use an obscure "power user" distribution…

Obscure distributions? Source tarballs? What are you two on about? Debian, Ubuntu's daddy, is the creator of the apt system. You'd be insane to say it's not a distribution for power users. Then there's other major distros with large user bases. Don't blame Ubuntu if you've never looked beyond its borders. Perhaps what's needed is a "Devbuntu" that relies on most of the same components as Ubuntu, but targets power use…

I've used debian for years. I hate that it makes you choose between stable/testing/unstable.

Whenever I install I always start with stable , because who wouldn't want "stable" right?

The I realise all the software is hopelessly out of date so I slowly end up creeping forward to testing or unstable, that's when problems begin.

At least Ubuntu fixed this somewhat with 6 month releases and LTS.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#174

Post by hannes2000 »

jasonkostempski wrote: post #15
div wrote: post #2

I don't really understand what the author is trying to say. Granted, it's been a while since I used Ubuntu, but as a developer I mainly live in my editor and terminal. Anything I ever wanted is just an apt-get away and is mostly installed in a sensible way. Ubuntu simplifying desktop features and changing defaults to be easier for users like my mom sounds like a great thing to happen to Linux. That stuff is mostly or…

I agree that they should come up with a nice default user friendly setup but they MUST also allow the user to toggle on/off the bits of fluff they want or don't want and they shouldn't have to search Google to figure out how. Also, they have to do fancy animations right, if they're consistently choppy they are no longer a positive feature. My machine runs Windows 7 with all the fluff smoothly, they need to hit that p…

The show-up-delay of the Window Switcher can be configured in ccsm (In the "Ubuntu Unity Plugin" section)

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#175

Post by morsch »

Kell wrote: post #171
morsch wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You don't need the terminal. You can chose the environment in the login screen, there's a drop down menu besides your name. Not exactly intuitive, but very easy to find out using Google or a forum. If you want Gnome 3, you can install it from the repositories (again, no terminal required, at least not in 11.10), and it'll be there in the drop down menu. Zero understanding of *nix required here.

Yes I was speaking of Gnome3. And No. It's not only "Install it from the repositories". Maybe it worked easily for you.. but for me t'was horrible. And yeah, I ended up having to mess around in the terminal and lynx to solve the problem (I had no other computer and was not going to always reboot to windows to Google something while tidying everything up). But yeah you can always say that's because I'm a noob, and was…

Sorry then. I guess it's only foolproof when it actually works#. My own upgrade experience wasn't for the faint of heart. I hope it was a learning experience, at least; it usually is for me. ;)

Beginners shouldn't have this kind of problem; but put another way, beginners shouldn't mess with this stuff unless they're willing to have this kind of problem (I'm sure most of us have been there, willingly).

# I'm not sure Ubuntu is particularly bad in this regard. It seems to be universal among all the operating systems (and everything else, for that matter). But I guess Linux is more likely to drop you to a shell, which might be scary for beginners.

Re: Ubuntu should zig to Apple’s zag

#176

Post by vidarh »

dfc wrote: post #97
vidarh wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, as a developer I got over wanting to tune everything about 10 years ago. I want things to mostly just work, and Ubuntu does that for the most part. I've yet to run into any situation where using Ubuntu has constrained me in any way vs. using another Linux distribution (and I've used a bunch of different ones over the years).

What does not mostly work from a vanilla debioan install?

The main reason I use Ubuntu over vanilla Debian for my desktop is lack of polish. It's not that I can't use it, but Ubuntu adds more polish, and what it takes away is stuff I don't notice because I don't tweak my desktop or laptop much anymore.

For the most part my "tweaks" consists of a git repo of my dot-files, and I rarely run more than a couple of full screen browser windows and a bunch of full screened terminal windows.

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