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As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

science.org

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Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#251

Post by wolverine876 »

simonsaysso wrote: post #216
slurpmaker wrote: post #42

Make it make sense. Offer Postdocs an actual career path not based on broken tenure and disposable adjunct professor roles, with hundreds if not thousands of applicants. Why would someone, with any field of study, be a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role? Moreso, post doc'ing for the wrong professor can ruin your career, why risk that eithe…

Both my parents went to graduate school. One of them loved the academic setting and went through with the postdoc and then found a tenure track job, the other decided it wasn't for them. I talked to them recently and the one still teaching said they would never choose that path if they were coming out of college now. It can take 5-10 years to find a tenure track job now because professors don't retire. I've seen 90+…

> All the low hanging fruit is gone, so projects and problems take longer and longer.

That is survivorship bias. There are low-hanging fruit in newer fields, or fields with recent major shifts.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#252

Post by dataflow »

wolverine876 wrote: post #242
apohn wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>If the pay isn't good, the culture and work should be. In academia, that's almost never true When I think back to my thought process when I was applying for academic and research jobs after my PhD, there's one thing I remember that always keeps me from ever second guessing my decision to move to the private sector. At least in my field, so many people in academia and research had big egos and were a-holes. Some of t…

A professor who had also worked in the private sector told me: In academia, everyone is smart and some of them are nice. In the private sector, everyone is nice and some of them are smart.

> In the private sector, everyone is nice

This doesn't really square with the horror stories I see from the private sector.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#253

Post by quantum_magpie »

screye wrote: post #223

I have always seen Postdocs as a 'desperation' position. The struggle to recruit post-docs might indicate healthier alternatives for phds instead of living life as white-collar slaves. I am surprised that universities haven't created formal part-academia-part-industry partnerships with nearby companies just yet. Instead we are stuck with post-docs and adjunct roles, which get you the worst of both worlds. Good Riddan…

>I am surprised that universities haven't created formal part-academia-part-industry partnerships with nearby companies just yet.

These do exist. I was offered to do a so-called 'Industrial PhD' at University of Copenhagen, where you get funded by a company, you do research split between university labs and the company labs, and work at the company at the same time. Should be noted that the time crunch is brutal, as you have the standard 3 years to complete it, but also have to work part time.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#254

Post by zmachinaz »

Article misses the point.

By now, the good students and post-docs know what is going on: The system is already so broken that there is a high chance that you end up with a PI who got his job because he/she/* is good in making friends with some VIPs. For the actual research, that is what you are hired for. Have fun turning the "great vision" of these PIs into something that makes at least a bit of sense. And only if you are as well the type to make friends with VIPs, you will have a chance to tenure-track.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#255

Post by [deleted] »

april_22 wrote: post #47
biophysboy wrote: post #33

The quote from a prof upset that they only received 28 applicants in about 6 months is pretty rich to read, as someone who is in currently a PhD student. They should be delighted so many people want a job with indefinite length, uncertain prospects, and very little pay. I just recently got a post doc offer from someone, which I will almost certainly turn down because I know the reality: academia sucks, science is gre…

I think what really changed is that people who have a PhD nowadays certainly also have great coding skills and the latter is so much more attractive job wise

[deleted]

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#256

Post by seydor »

Academia is a despotic, anachronistic system. There needs to be a movement to break education and research out of academic institutions. There are enough online resources to provide free education to anyone who wishes it, and nobody should have to pay for a degree (instead; students should be paid; it's in the interest of society). Funding and licensing of science needs to open up to anyone who desires it, in order to become productive again. The current system is optimized to create busybodies who oversell their work for a few years before dumping it and moving on to their next scam. Postdocs are victims of their own delusion that working in academia is somehow superior to working in any other way.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#257

Post by wolverine876 »

dataflow wrote: post #252
wolverine876 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A professor who had also worked in the private sector told me: In academia, everyone is smart and some of them are nice. In the private sector, everyone is nice and some of them are smart.

> In the private sector, everyone is nice This doesn't really square with the horror stories I see from the private sector.

I don't think they meant it literally, but more in the sense of different places on the trade-off continuum: E.g., academia is willing to tolerate more bad behavior but less lack-of-smarts.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#258

Post by toddm »

My experience through 2 postdoctoral appointments was quite pleasant. The pay was low and I lived in high COL places, but I knew that going into it.

In return, I met and worked with and for some brilliant people and was exposed to interesting research.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#259

Post by doliveira »

dataflow wrote: post #252
wolverine876 wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A professor who had also worked in the private sector told me: In academia, everyone is smart and some of them are nice. In the private sector, everyone is nice and some of them are smart.

> In the private sector, everyone is nice This doesn't really square with the horror stories I see from the private sector.

Everyone in the informal hyperbolic sense. Like 90%.

The remaining 10% are more than enough to account for the horror stories

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#260

Post by ImageXav »

arethuza wrote: post #169
ImageXav wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arethuza, I'm a bit confused by this comment. PhDs in the UK don't last over 4 years. Would you mind clarifying? From a personal perspective I don't regret my PhD, though it was charity funded so it was topped up to be around £20 000 instead of the usual £14000ish per year. It was an opportunity to engage with a small group of experts in research that was engaging and of use to the wider world, and present it interna…

Technically the PhD was part time although most people in my position took 4 to 5 years. This was also the early 90s so times may have changed.. I was lucky enough to get involved in the web very early (1992) and present papers at the first few web conferences - though that wasn’t my day job. Edit: I worked on a couple of EU Esprit 2 projects.

Ah that makes sense. The rules have changed since, though a part time PhD would still take 6-7 years.

I imagine that must have been quite interesting!

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