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As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

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Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#211
post #183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend who is a professor at a university aiming for tenure put it succinctly: "Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics, because the stakes are so low." [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sayre%27s_law

No: the will to power is greatest because you have (supposedly) power over the creme of the creme. As silly as that but Nietzsche had it right: the will to power is one of the primordial forces.

the creme of the creme are all working for big companies making big dollars. But I could imagine people in academia thinking they are the a big deal.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#212
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role Where do you get these numbers from? This is not at all like that in Europe. A postdoc gets (say, in France) 30k per year, doing a calm, interesting job and paid travel to a couple of conferences per year, with almost total freedom to choose their daily schedule. This is not a high salary, but it is c…

I'm a PhD student in CS in the USA. At my school in Boston, we are paid a ~40K USD/yr stipend. My friends in industry make a _minimum_ of 120k/yr, and some make considerably more than that (think 200k+), in junior / "entry-level" positions. When I complete the PhD, if I go to industry in the USA, my income will probably be similar to that of my friends who will have been in industry the entire time (and gotten steady…

... this sounds like you're in my exact department, actually.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if you want uncontrolled inflation, keep advocating for policies that push unemployment below the rate of sustainable full employment. It seems to be making people happy, after all. Not like there are hundreds of years of economic history to learn from...

Ah yes, people getting jobs is what caused inflation. Not the trillions printed and given to scammy upper classes through fraudulent PPP loans and artificially low interest rates.

People getting jobs (and raises in those jobs) is absolutely what's causing main street, non-asset inflation.

Wages growing results in prices growing. This is still beneficial for the people whose wages are growing. (Which, in the past year, have mostly been lower class workers. Gas going up in price sucks, but an extra two dollars an hour more than offsets it.)

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#215

Make it make sense. Offer Postdocs an actual career path not based on broken tenure and disposable adjunct professor roles, with hundreds if not thousands of applicants. Why would someone, with any field of study, be a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role? Moreso, post doc'ing for the wrong professor can ruin your career, why risk that eithe…

"There's a shortage of Lamborghinis!" "Oh? At which price point?" "At the $4000 price point! It's a travesty!"

There's some nuance here because the reason this logic works is that labor is special (to me at least) because measures to forcibly reduce the cost of labor increase human suffering. But for basically every other good prices being driven well beyond the norm (during normalish market conditions) is basically the definition of a shortage. It doesn't really matter if it's a "luxary" good or not (since that category is ill-defined anyway grumble grumble tampons).

If the price of milk shot up from $2/gal to $20/gal that's a shortage.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#216

Make it make sense. Offer Postdocs an actual career path not based on broken tenure and disposable adjunct professor roles, with hundreds if not thousands of applicants. Why would someone, with any field of study, be a "scum of the earth" post doc for 1/5th the salary and double the hours required as a junior python developer role? Moreso, post doc'ing for the wrong professor can ruin your career, why risk that eithe…

Both my parents went to graduate school. One of them loved the academic setting and went through with the postdoc and then found a tenure track job, the other decided it wasn't for them. I talked to them recently and the one still teaching said they would never choose that path if they were coming out of college now.

It can take 5-10 years to find a tenure track job now because professors don't retire. I've seen 90+ year olds walking around departments, and 70 year olds are common. All the low hanging fruit is gone, so projects and problems take longer and longer. Together, it means that whatever semblance of academic integrity and honor is gone. There's too much pressure to produce something big that you'll hide data or even steal it. Even collaborations don't mean you'll see your name on a paper. My partner got their research scooped by former collaborators!! And your recourse for blatant plagiarism? Nothing! No institution will fight for you because your career doesn't matter to them. There's a huge pool of postdocs they can pick from if you give up. Most of the professors still pretend that they can talk things out and share data, or blame you for not anticipating the issues.

The pay is secondary for most people who made it through grad school. They generally _want_ to do research. But when the pay is less for a more toxic environment, it's a no brainer. And somehow the professors are confused why no one wants to stay...

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#217
post #208
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a PhD student in CS in the USA. At my school in Boston, we are paid a ~40K USD/yr stipend. My friends in industry make a _minimum_ of 120k/yr, and some make considerably more than that (think 200k+), in junior / "entry-level" positions. When I complete the PhD, if I go to industry in the USA, my income will probably be similar to that of my friends who will have been in industry the entire time (and gotten steady…

Getting hired as a PHD is usually a +1 in level compared to a junior.

Yes, but in the time it takes to complete a PhD, the junior engineer can usually get promoted at least once. So you both end up in the same place, but the guy who went straight to industry was making 3x more than the PhD in the meantime.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, but consumer polling proves the point though? People are miserable BECAUSE their dollar buys less. The benefactors of such a policy are those with diversified assets. Wages should increase in response, not decrease. Inflation hits different sectors differently, and I'm OK with a PS5 inflating 300% if it means that a person on a minimum wage can have food security.

Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even. There is a wealth of economic history that shows this. The stimulus checks and co were the primary driver of inflation. Handing people more money is not the answer

> Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even.

By exacerbate I suppose you're imagining a cycle where higher wages result in higher prices which result in higher wages and so on. However wages are just another price in the market and it's not clear why the cycle needs to be broken after all prices have gone up except wages. We don't need to let workers end up holding the bag yet again.

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, but consumer polling proves the point though? People are miserable BECAUSE their dollar buys less. The benefactors of such a policy are those with diversified assets. Wages should increase in response, not decrease. Inflation hits different sectors differently, and I'm OK with a PS5 inflating 300% if it means that a person on a minimum wage can have food security.

Advocating for higher wages to fight inflation is non-sensical. It just exacerbates inflation and requires even further wage gains to keep even. There is a wealth of economic history that shows this. The stimulus checks and co were the primary driver of inflation. Handing people more money is not the answer

Why should labor eat the real losses from inflation rather than capital or rentiers?

Re: As professors struggle to recruit postdocs, calls for change in academia

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Expanding the acronym for non-academia, ABD is "all but dissertation". After the first 2-3 years of a PhD program, the coursework is finished, you're into mostly independent research, and so you've completed "all but dissertation". This is a nebulous time that could be as short as 1-2 years, and could be as long as 5-10 years. The shorter durations tend to be in the sciences, and the longer durations in the humanitie…

> Because the duration is so dependent on the program, and the only end is when the advisor agrees that sufficient work has been done to merit a PhD, it can stretch on without much hope in sight. At least one world famous research university has a fix for this problem of "... when the advisor agrees": The official statement of the university is that the Ph.D. student must submit "an original contribution to knowledge…

Huh. My department requires one paper just to attain PhD candidate status.
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