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Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

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Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#31

Post by badRNG »

hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #19
badRNG wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I currently work in embedded software which involves a lot of overlapping interaction with EE and hardware design folks. The consensus is that the hardest, most fascinating field is the one you currently have the least exposure to. The easiest, least exciting field is the one you have a degree in. In CS, you may have spent thousands or tens of thousands of hours across many years learning and growing, and still being…

Just curious, for a software engineer that only works with managed languages such as Java and Python, what kind of embedded job is easy to squeeze into? Thanks~~

If you have experience with software, learning embedded concepts isn't a huge leap. At least in my area, aerospace, defense, and automotive tend to be the biggest, easiest employers to get started with. They will hire basically anyone with a solid grasp of C, OSes, and basic computer architecture (at an undergrad level.)

I find embedded really rewarding. A 20 year old embedded-C code base generally follows the same design patterns and coding conventions and styles that you'd use today, and don't feel "old" or like they need to be rewritten. A 7 year old JS code base, on the other hand, is largely outdated, and may be written in a nearly extinct framework by the time it is your turn to maintain it. If you get tired of giving up time on the weekends so you can learn a new framework, consider hopping over!

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#32

Post by binbag »

I think this is a great opportunity for young people and they should take the chance to enter a field that even for electrical engineers is tough to enter. Chip design and semiconductor engineering is a bit of a black art, kind of like analogue electronics in general. I've got a PhD in EE and I still marvel at the engineering that goes into chips. If I was starting again I'd seriously consider this opportunity.

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#33

Post by jjoonathan »

rockostrich wrote: post #22
jjoonathan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning: nerd trap. Low wages, horrendous deadlines (tapeout), hard work. Perhaps this has changed, given that we're in a semiconductor boom cycle now, but I have my doubts. When SMIC started trying to poach TSMC talent, the response was not to make pay competitive (or even half decent), let alone in line with the massive geopolitically-relevant value being created. No, the response was a mask-off legislative crackdo…

I went into a master's program at SUNY CNSE back in 2014 for "nanoscale engineering" hoping to do some research in MEMS/NEMS. Turns out there were no research spots available with the groups working on that stuff so I ended up in a group working on EUV photoresists. I ended up not doing much actual "nanoscale research" and mostly just did some data science/engineering for the group since all the data processing code…

If they paid me to be on-call as much as they payed my father (doctor) to be on-call, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Maybe I would have regretted it in 10 years -- he sure did -- but I'd have loved it for a while.

Terrible pay and terrible hours and long school and hard work is just irredeemable.

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#34

Post by scrlk »

rockostrich wrote: post #22
jjoonathan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning: nerd trap. Low wages, horrendous deadlines (tapeout), hard work. Perhaps this has changed, given that we're in a semiconductor boom cycle now, but I have my doubts. When SMIC started trying to poach TSMC talent, the response was not to make pay competitive (or even half decent), let alone in line with the massive geopolitically-relevant value being created. No, the response was a mask-off legislative crackdo…

I went into a master's program at SUNY CNSE back in 2014 for "nanoscale engineering" hoping to do some research in MEMS/NEMS. Turns out there were no research spots available with the groups working on that stuff so I ended up in a group working on EUV photoresists. I ended up not doing much actual "nanoscale research" and mostly just did some data science/engineering for the group since all the data processing code…

This reminds me of my path: wanted to study EE because I thought that designing chips, working in a fab etc. would be cool, started studying EE and realised I would need to get a PhD to do the more interesting work (frankly I'm not smart enough to do a PhD), plus tepid job prospects in the UK.

Ended up as a power systems engineer, which is the complete opposite in terms of scale from semiconductors!

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#35

Post by mindcrime »

DonHopkins wrote: post #26

Lynn Conway, co-author along with Carver Mead of "the textbook" on VLSI design, "Introduction to VLSI Systems", created and taught this historic VLSI Design Course in 1978, which was the first time students designed and fabricated their own integrated circuits: >"Importantly, these weren’t just any designs, for many pushed the envelope of system architecture. Jim Clark, for instance, prototyped the Geometry Engine an…

I would upvote this x100 if I could! Times like these, one is reminded of what it that makes HN so special. Having people like Don here and engaging and sharing this stuff, is just magnificient.

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#36

Post by Melatonic »

jjoonathan wrote: post #13
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #4

As someone working full-time in Canada, wish I could roll back my life 10+ years and get into one of the semiconductor schools. Good luck to all who are admitted into this program, looks very interesting. Link to online degree: https://engineering.purdue.edu/semiconductors/degrees#online...

Warning: nerd trap. Low wages, horrendous deadlines (tapeout), hard work. Perhaps this has changed, given that we're in a semiconductor boom cycle now, but I have my doubts. When SMIC started trying to poach TSMC talent, the response was not to make pay competitive (or even half decent), let alone in line with the massive geopolitically-relevant value being created. No, the response was a mask-off legislative crackdo…

This honestly sounds like there is some real shady shit going on behind the scenes by the heads of these two companies. Reminds me of the whole VFX / software engineering union debacle with Steve Jobs / Lucas / etc that eventually came out and was super duper illegal.

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#37

Post by hnthrowaway0315 »

badRNG wrote: post #31
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, for a software engineer that only works with managed languages such as Java and Python, what kind of embedded job is easy to squeeze into? Thanks~~

If you have experience with software, learning embedded concepts isn't a huge leap. At least in my area, aerospace, defense, and automotive tend to be the biggest, easiest employers to get started with. They will hire basically anyone with a solid grasp of C, OSes, and basic computer architecture (at an undergrad level.) I find embedded really rewarding. A 20 year old embedded-C code base generally follows the same d…

Thanks for the tip, that's really interesting. I'm more into lower level stuffs so I'm taking CS courses towards OS and Compiler. I also played with a Tiva launchpad but stopped after failing bit banging multiple devices :D

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#38

Post by hnthrowaway0315 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #25
hnthrowaway0315 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just curious, for a software engineer that only works with managed languages such as Java and Python, what kind of embedded job is easy to squeeze into? Thanks~~

There are a number of embedded gadgets that run on Android, complete with code in Java. (They aren't hard real-time systems, but not all embedded devices care about that.) Look for things that have a real graphical display and touchscreen.

Thanks! Is that different from Android/iOS development or just part of it?

Re: Purdue Starts Comprehensive Semiconductor Degree Programs in U.S.

#40

Post by bluelan949 »

rockostrich wrote: post #22
jjoonathan wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Warning: nerd trap. Low wages, horrendous deadlines (tapeout), hard work. Perhaps this has changed, given that we're in a semiconductor boom cycle now, but I have my doubts. When SMIC started trying to poach TSMC talent, the response was not to make pay competitive (or even half decent), let alone in line with the massive geopolitically-relevant value being created. No, the response was a mask-off legislative crackdo…

I went into a master's program at SUNY CNSE back in 2014 for "nanoscale engineering" hoping to do some research in MEMS/NEMS. Turns out there were no research spots available with the groups working on that stuff so I ended up in a group working on EUV photoresists. I ended up not doing much actual "nanoscale research" and mostly just did some data science/engineering for the group since all the data processing code…

Likewise, I graduated from a very similar program to CNSE. It was a program attached to the main engineering school. The work seemed so interesting and I felt I would end up doing impactful research.

That was until I did an internship following a grad student doing work on solar cells. Every day was sitting 8+ hours in one room doing CVD then XRD. It was soul crushing. I realized the program was more of a PhD-prep program and most people I know who graduated and didn’t go for a PhD either 1) went into software or 2) work as some menial process engineer working the “assembly line” with no meaningful upwards mobility.

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