Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up • Hacker News Board

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#261

Post by FollowingTheDao » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:09 PM UTC

Djvacto wrote: post #203

citilife wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be clear, I'm actually blaming therapists and "mental health experts". Parents are clearly doing their best and looking for support. The "experts" are paid (in many cases) through recurring attendance and kick-backs from pharma... why would we assume they'd want to resolve the issue any other way? Even the research is often funded by pharma... Note the NIH even receives revenue (and individual scientists) from cre…

Your diabetes analogy fails, because ADHD does not have an environmentally-caused Type 2. ADHD is hereditary, genetic, and has to do with how the brain tends to be wired in that individual. ADHD can be helped through environment and habit changes, and impacts can be reduced, but you cannot cure it. It seems that you think ADHD is not a real disease, given your quotes around the words "disease", "cure", etc. If some p…

ADHD is caused by a mix off environment and genetics. That environment could include several inputs, like diet, air pollution, etc.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31810593/

And ADHD is not a disease, it is a disorder. There is no biological markers yet for a diagnosis either.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#262

Post by johnnymorgan » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:13 PM UTC

billjings wrote: post #205

tjridesbikes wrote: post #135

Anecdata, but I've been on methylphenidate (Concerta) since age 7, and holy cow has it impacted my life in an insanely positive way. 21 years later, I'm still on Concerta, but excelling in my career, spending meaningful time with friends, family, and hobbies, and generally pretty happy with myself. When I tried dropping the meds in college, my life basically fell apart in a matter of months. My then-girlfriend now-wi…

I did the same thing as you. I wasn't on Concerta for as long; I started on Ritalin in 3rd grade, and switched to Concerta my senior year of high school. I dropped all meds in college. I actually tried TWICE to drop my meds. Each time my life fell apart, as you described. The second time, however, I did not interpret my life falling apart the way you did: instead of interpreting it as validation of the medication's e…

Love this post, can't say exactly why but it resonates with me.

Cheers and kudos!

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#263

Post by nowahe » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:13 PM UTC

am_lu wrote: post #225

A bit of perspective from speed user (amphetamine, not meth) who I know: Been into it for 10+ years. Usual weekend binge on 3.5 grams of good quality amphetamine. Can last from Friday evening till Tuesday, will little sleep between. Lots of things get done. Rest of the week head and brain is out service, depression you call it, nothing is been done, hard to go to work, any excuse willdo, sort out yourself some food o…

From personal experience, I feel like the crash following a multi-day binge isn't necessarily due to amphetamine withdrawls, but more so the consequences of multi-day sleep deprivation, dehydration, under-nutrition; all the while having over-exerted yourself.

On the comedown of a multi-day binge, I don't feel depressed per se. I'm constantly tired while awake, which I can only keep at bay if I'm physically active. Also, my ability to focus and get motivated dips below baseline, inversely proportional to how high over baseline I was. (And I would speculate that it is mostly due to a depletion of dopamine & its precursors rather than a withdrawl, as it can be alleviated through a decent diet).

From what I've read as well, most of the long term side effects of amphetamine abuse stem from chronic lack of sleep, food & water rather than damage from the molecule itself. Although repeated overstimulation of your reward/dopaminergic system definitely can't be good for you, be it through adaptation or damage of the dopaminergic neurons (I remember reading somewhere that long term meth users are more prone to Parkinson's).

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#264

Post by FollowingTheDao » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

benfrain wrote: post #50

citilife wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop…

You clearly don’t have a clue what you are talking about. I have a child clinically diagnosed with ADHD. It’s absolutely nothing to do with time spent with him. We have stable family home, active life style. etc He just has a brain that works differently. Not worse. Different. He might struggle to pay attention at school but he’s written two novels! PS. Religion is horse shit so if that’s the only other thing you hav…

If you feel his brain is "just different", I have a question; Are you medicating them?

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#265

Post by danShumway » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

FollowingTheDao wrote: post #202

sph wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My come down is only feeling a little more tired. I suspect you are not talking from experience but hearsay. > Well, a dose doesn’t last forever. It wouldn’t be surprising if it was a net negative. My near-sightedness returns as soon as I put down my prescription glasses. I've had to wear them every single day to be able to function decently. Imagine that.

As someone who’s been institutionalized in a psychiatric hospital four times in a still living with bipolar schizoaffective disorder I can tell you being nearsighted is no comparison to having a mood disorder. If people were not ignorant enough to ignore all the nutritional facts that go around the production of catecholamines there would be no need for medication. Your doctors are probably doing more harm than good…

I don't know what everyone else's experiences are, but my psychiatrist definitely ordered blood tests for me before prescribing medication, and I was able to look through the results myself as well. I'm happy for you if you managed to fix your own problems by getting your B6 checked, but vitamin deficiency is not the reason I have ADHD.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#266

Post by _the_inflator » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:14 PM UTC

tjridesbikes wrote: post #135

Anecdata, but I've been on methylphenidate (Concerta) since age 7, and holy cow has it impacted my life in an insanely positive way. 21 years later, I'm still on Concerta, but excelling in my career, spending meaningful time with friends, family, and hobbies, and generally pretty happy with myself. When I tried dropping the meds in college, my life basically fell apart in a matter of months. My then-girlfriend now-wi…

Can confirm. Concerta gave me the impression that there is simply no distraction, only nothing to do with your focus time. Impressed me.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#267

Post by throwaway892238 » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:15 PM UTC

When I was on ADHD medication and developed depression, they gave me ADHD meds + anti-depressants. When those didn't work they added anti-psychotics. I was 12 years old, getting my blood checked regularly to try to detect the liver or kidney failure (I don't remember which) they knew was a side-effect.

Turned out I just didn't like living in Florida.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#268

Post by mmmrtl » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:22 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #4

This was for ONE adhd medication and the risk was only increased for the initial 90 days... and then went back to baseline.

The authors show increased depression risk in the 90 days PRE-exposure (before starting treatment). To me, the authors seems to have dangerously misinterpreted the data. It could easily be the case that a depression diagnosis leads to seeing a psychiatrist and deciding to treat their underlying ADHD with methylphenidate. How could being about to go on methylphenidate in the next 90 days possible be the cause of depression???

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#269

Post by zemoose » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

robonerd wrote: post #45

falcolas wrote: post #19

FWIW, ADHD increases the risk of depression too. Executive Function Disorder creates a lot of internal thoughts of "I'm a loser" "I'll never be able to succeed", and so forth. Though, being fair, those are thoughts other people will direct at those with ADHD as well.

> "I'll never be able to succeed" Is it the condition which causes this, or the diagnosis of the condition? I think diagnoses can easily inspire feelings of futility. It's no longer something you can change about yourself by wanting to change, it becomes a medical condition you've been stuck with.

Annecdotally? The condition. It was actually the opposite of what you described. Getting diagnosed in early adulthood was actually a huge weight off my shoulders, because I suddenly understood why I was struggling and had a path forward for seeking treatment. Prior to that, I was just drowning and overwhelmed, and I didn't know why. It felt like nothing I did helped and I wasn't making any progress towards my goals. I felt like I was barely a functional adult. It felt terrible.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#270

Post by dudus » Tue, Jun 14, 2022, 9:24 PM UTC

throwaway892238 wrote: post #267

When I was on ADHD medication and developed depression, they gave me ADHD meds + anti-depressants. When those didn't work they added anti-psychotics. I was 12 years old, getting my blood checked regularly to try to detect the liver or kidney failure (I don't remember which) they knew was a side-effect. Turned out I just didn't like living in Florida.

Maybe you could have got worse without the meds.