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Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

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Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#71

Post by CoryAlexMartin »

Klonoar wrote: post #60
grishka wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They clearly are regressions because they confuse many people and make a worse use of the same screen area. Also what are the problems being solved by these redesigns and rearrangements? What was solved by going flat in 10.9 -> 10.10? What was solved by going even flatter, and using the dreaded SF Symbols icons everywhere, in 10.15 -> 11.0? It's a done product — it's been one for quite a while. Could they just stop m…

People who complain are loud. Just because they’re loud doesn’t make the UI changes bad. I find I legitimately prefer the newer UI of Big Sur onwards. I just don’t feel the need to shout it from the heavens. An alternative take: you’re really going to suggest that one of the richest companies in the world doesn’t do extensive UI/UX testing before putting things out the door? They’re not just saying “yeah, this looks…

Why do you prefer the new UI? I can make a list of reasons why it's bad. The only reason I can see why anyone would prefer it is because it looks "cleaner", but that cleanness is artificial and gets in the way when trying to parse and use the software.

A good UI designer makes buttons look like buttons so our brain can quickly recognize them as such, without mistaking them for something else. A good designer has the window title in the same place no matter the application, so we know where to look before we even look. A good designer gives us a place to reliably perform common actions such as dragging the window.

We use our computers daily, and even imperceptible improvements to cognitive load and the amount of time it takes to perform actions make a difference over time. When I use my 2009 iMac running Snow Leaoprd, I perceive a reduction in friction compared to the latest macOS versions, and even compared to Catalina, which I use as my primary OS.

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#72

Post by jen729w »

joemi wrote: post #24

Side note: What an odd webpage style. Makes some things look like they're markdown, but they're actually added with css ::before and ::after. Plus I found the link style very distracting and unnecessary (since browsers already have built-in ways to show you the URL of a link).

Shows we’re all different: I really like it.

I write and think in Markdown and there was something about seeing it laid bare that I enjoyed. Wouldn’t want it on every site, but for something a bit different, call me a fan of this one.

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#73

Post by duxup »

pupppet wrote: post #7
Doches wrote: post #4

Sure, this is a sweet little hit of nostalgia -- but it's also symptomatic of just how far Apple's come (back) with the Mac, and why. It's clear that we're way, way over the doldrums of the butterfly keyboard, abandoned Mac Pro, "continues to be a product in our line-up" years. Little things like this, little acknowledgements of the past and the Mac community, suggest to me why: the people in charge of the Mac are no…

I too like the current state of Mac development, but this is also a sign of how sterile the company has become when any hint of personality needs to be drawn from Apple's past.

Hint of personality is still a bucket load more than I get elsewhere.

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#74

Post by drewzero1 »

Alex3917 wrote: post #19
jeffkeen wrote: post #16

This is so great. The 90s/pre OS-X Apple (the "BuT tHeREs No SOFtWaRe!" and "ApPLe is GoING tO DiiEE" Apple) had a sense of playfulness in their UIs that was largely lost when they became the Apple we know today. The Mac OS classic architecture definitely had some problems with its non-protected memory and cooperative multitasking, but what it _allowed_ were extensions that could really get in there and muck around w…

Now they just need to bring back wild eep and sosumi.

I have wild eep as my text notification. On the rare occasion that I don't have my phone silenced, it gets some attention!

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#75

Post by systemvoltage »

Doches wrote: post #4

Sure, this is a sweet little hit of nostalgia -- but it's also symptomatic of just how far Apple's come (back) with the Mac, and why. It's clear that we're way, way over the doldrums of the butterfly keyboard, abandoned Mac Pro, "continues to be a product in our line-up" years. Little things like this, little acknowledgements of the past and the Mac community, suggest to me why: the people in charge of the Mac are no…

There are currently things like this that we can stop from going to doom. But we won't. It will be 2030 when we'll learn, yep, we were right.

Lack of critical thinking, patting too much on the back of ourselves and inability to make tough decisions is a general malaise in Big Tech.

When companies are too focused on other things and not enough on the fundamentals, this is what happens.

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#76

Post by derefr »

grishka wrote: post #28
selectodude wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This whole system preferences thing for example Do you remember what the battery icon in System Preferences looked like in the first beta of Mac OS 12? It's a beta. Give it some time. It's not out yet.

I'm very doubtful that by the time it reaches release, they'll bring back the icon grid and the sensible layouts (instead of those stupid iOS-like lists) in the panes themselves.

What do you mean, iOS-like? The new System Preferences has a very clear precedent in macOS: https://www.versionmuseum.com/images/operating-systems/class...

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#77

Post by grishka »

derefr wrote: post #76
grishka wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very doubtful that by the time it reaches release, they'll bring back the icon grid and the sensible layouts (instead of those stupid iOS-like lists) in the panes themselves.

What do you mean, iOS-like? The new System Preferences has a very clear precedent in macOS: https://www.versionmuseum.com/images/operating-systems/class...

The new preference panes themselves are very iOS-like, and that's unprecedented.

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#78

Post by derefr »

dunham wrote: post #20

> I, er, accidentally updated my laptop to the beta Good to know it wasn't just me. I also expected it to be an installer that let me choose a different volume to install on.

AFAIK, it will present you a choice, _if_ you've already created a separate APFS volume such that there's more than one option of installation target. I saw someone do exactly that (create an APFS volume for Ventura, start the installer, and then choose said volume as the target) in the first YouTube video I saw about the beta's release.

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#79

Post by shadowfacts »

derefr wrote: post #78
dunham wrote: post #20

> I, er, accidentally updated my laptop to the beta Good to know it wasn't just me. I also expected it to be an installer that let me choose a different volume to install on.

AFAIK, it will present you a choice, _if_ you've already created a separate APFS volume such that there's more than one option of installation target. I saw someone do exactly that (create an APFS volume for Ventura, start the installer, and then choose said volume as the target) in the first YouTube video I saw about the beta's release.

Huh, really? That's exactly what I did—I still have an empty, vestigial volume called Ventura in the same APFS container as Macintosh HD—and I was not presented with a choice.

Re: Clarus returns home in macOS Ventura

#80

Post by derefr »

shadowfacts wrote: post #79
derefr wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIK, it will present you a choice, _if_ you've already created a separate APFS volume such that there's more than one option of installation target. I saw someone do exactly that (create an APFS volume for Ventura, start the installer, and then choose said volume as the target) in the first YouTube video I saw about the beta's release.

Huh, really? That's exactly what I did—I still have an empty, vestigial volume called Ventura in the same APFS container as Macintosh HD—and I was not presented with a choice.

Weird. Maybe the youtuber I watched didn't realize their mistake while filming :P
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