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Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

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Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#151

Post by lukas099 »

sha256sum wrote: post #74
citilife wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop…

> IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. I see this with someone close to me. Diagnosed with ADHD as a child, medicated, later diagnosed with depression. The real issue, however, was probably more related to brain development/executive function because their mother smoked a pack of cigarettes a day through pregnancy. You've…

To counter your anecdote with my own:

I grew up in a two-parent household. I had a doting, stay-home mom who spent lots of time with us. I lived in a safe neighborhood where I rode bikes with other kids for miles around during the summer. My family took long road trips to places like Yellowstone National Park for weeks and day trips to the zoo, the botanical gardens, the science museum, etc. I did not have a TV in my room and screen time was limited. I was involved in sports at school, summer swim team, and karate which my dad did with us.

I have ADHD which resulted in crippling depression when I was in college. As soon as I got diagnosed and medicated, I was able to be like the normal people that I always wanted to be, and align my actions with my goals.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#152

Post by TrevorJ »

daniel-cussen wrote: post #145
TrevorJ wrote: post #91

This doesn't surprise me. I've been prescribed Ritalin at times both as a child and an adult in small doses. It is a remarkable strong medication, and operates much like I imagine recreational drugs operate - there's a definite strong high, and an equally brutal comedown afterword. I would be extremely cautious about prescribing this to anyone, especially children unless nearly every other kind of intervention has be…

Methylphenidate and cocaine are very very similar, but the nuance is different. It' like a bank account at -1¢ or +1¢, very similar accounts, how will they differ as time passes? In particular because cocaine is addictive whereas methylphenidate is not. Cocaine is euphoric while methylphenidate is much less, cocaine is arrogant while methylphenidate is just in-the-zone, just makes you want to work. Makes drudgery fee…

It certainly can be addictive.

"Warnings Ritalin may be habit-forming. Tell your doctor if you have a history of drug or alcohol addiction. Keep the medication where others cannot get to it.

Misuse of Ritalin can cause addiction, overdose, or death. Tell your doctor if you have had problems with drug or alcohol abuse."

https://www.drugs.com/ritalin.html

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#153

Post by Avamander »

TrevorJ wrote: post #138
Avamander wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren't assuming it about you specifically. It's just a common part of the process, with a common solution. It's likely a very valid question. If you're one of the few for whom it didn't work out, cool. But with equal respect, your anecdotal experience is not sufficient to call it "legal cocaine". Neither is it sufficient to make generilizations about how medical care of ADHD should be approached.

1. Ritalin is a schedule V medication precisely because of the reasons I mentioned. 2. Five minutes of research online shows that my experience is not uncommon. Hell, reading the warning label from the pharmaceutical manufacturer is sufficient to make my point. 3. I am very pro-medication when it comes to treating ADHD, but I also believe many people are not sufficiently educated on the potential consequences of thes…

> Ritalin is a schedule V medication precisely because of the reasons I mentioned.

Doesn't make it okay to call it "legal cocaine".

> Five minutes of research online shows that my experience is not uncommon. Hell, reading the warning label from the pharmaceutical manufacturer is sufficient to make my point.

Obviously it's documented, but it doesn't make your point. As I already said, it's a thing that happens in the process when finding the correct dosage for an individual.

Though for neurotypical people who don't have the disorder, there's no correct dosage and they'll experience what you did.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#154

Post by citilife »

Djvacto wrote: post #52
citilife wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was actually going to point that out. IMO from what I've seen of parents are that people who bring their children at a young-ish age to a therapist have a different issue. Especially "being to hyper" or "being unable to focus" have a different issue. Children are supposed to be outside moving 8-12 hours a day, have you seen puppies? They need something similar. Instead many parents give their children tablets, plop…

I started medication as an adult, lived in a home with two involved & present parents, never saw any doctor about ADHD until I was an adult, and was never an unhappy child. Looking back, I clearly had ADHD, but since it's a condition that's unique and specific symptoms vary per person, I just happened to have mechanisms that worked and got lucky with how my brain patterns fit into school from Elementary - High School…

One way I try to explain it to people: "We give people insulin because they have diabetes. Diabetes is the disease, but you can cure it through diet and exercise for Type 2 (it's environmental), Type 1 you cannot (it's genetic). Insulin treats the disease, but doesn't cure it"

Why is it not the same for ADHD or depression? Type 1 is genetic and Type 2 is environmental.

The argument I was attempting to make is different from what everyone here is saying I think. What is a disease?

> Disease - a condition of the living animal or plant body or of one of its parts that impairs normal functioning and is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms

Two points:

1. I would argue that what you describe isn't impairing normal function. It's that we are attempting to make you do abnormal things (sit in a room all day and be lectured at. At the end you have an exam). Society is failing to raise children properly and expecting things that are abnormal for the human animal.

2. A disease is basically diagnosed from a bucket of symptoms. Those symptoms will have different causes. Without taking a measured approach at identifying the causes, you are likely going to see a plethora of factors. These can and do include things like hyperactivity from siting and watching TV (now they have energy and want to move). Things of that nature.

Given the above, we're effectively medicating children for personal / societal reasons, not because the human animal is actually suffering or impaired in any way.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#155

Post by balfirevic »

LordDragonfang wrote: post #114
doliveira wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if it's a "horoscope reading" kind of feeling, but I just identify so much with these descriptions of ADHD.

If you identify with these descriptions strongly, it's a pretty conclusive indicator that you have some degree of executive dysfunction. Whether you specifically have ADHD is up to a doctor to determine, but this type of executive dysfunction tends to be a hallmark of the disorder.

What are some other disorders that manifest as executive dysfunction? I've seen it mentioned about depression, but I'm curious if there are others.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#156

Post by Taywee »

lettergram wrote: post #109
Djvacto wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started medication as an adult, lived in a home with two involved & present parents, never saw any doctor about ADHD until I was an adult, and was never an unhappy child. Looking back, I clearly had ADHD, but since it's a condition that's unique and specific symptoms vary per person, I just happened to have mechanisms that worked and got lucky with how my brain patterns fit into school from Elementary - High School…

As you pointed out ADHD is a disease, what’s the cause? Do you have adhd, or do the drugs help you focus and you want that? Calling it a disease implies something is wrong, but having trouble focusing isn’t “wrong”. It’s a skill one can acquire and may have a variety of factors impacting it (from genetics to environment to mental management). That’s the issue I personally take with these kind of discussions. Medicati…

Not them, and I don't have ADHD, but I am the parent of a child with ADHD and I know plenty of people with ADHD, and it's not just "having trouble focusing". For a lot of people, it's a complete inability to focus on any one thing for any real amount of time. They can try as hard as they can to force themselves, but become disfocused and distracted despite any effort. It also often involves impulsiveness that is incredibly difficult to control, to the point that often it feels like it wasn't even their own choice. A common description I've heard is that it feels like somebody else was controlling them. My son would say when he was younger "My brain made me do it" or "my hands just did it on their own", and at first I thought it was an excuse, but after one destructive incident, he broke down crying at the age of 7 saying that he doesn't know why he does the things he does, and he can't stop or control himself, and he wishes he could stop himself from doing it. He tries to be good but then something takes control and makes him do destructive things or blurt out things he knows are wrong to say.

On medication now, he still has a hard time, but he is actually capable of controlling himself, he is capable of forcing himself to focus, and he's much happier. Now it is just a skill for him to work on, but in the past, it was an actual impossibility. It is a true disorder, not just "trouble focusing", and ADHD medication is a fundamental need for some people to function at all, and not comparable to a morning coffee.

In the past, these people were often assumed to be possessed, or insane, and were institutionalized, killed, or imprisoned. It's not like ADHD is a new epidemic or something.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#157

Post by olyjohn »

lettergram wrote: post #109
Djvacto wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started medication as an adult, lived in a home with two involved & present parents, never saw any doctor about ADHD until I was an adult, and was never an unhappy child. Looking back, I clearly had ADHD, but since it's a condition that's unique and specific symptoms vary per person, I just happened to have mechanisms that worked and got lucky with how my brain patterns fit into school from Elementary - High School…

As you pointed out ADHD is a disease, what’s the cause? Do you have adhd, or do the drugs help you focus and you want that? Calling it a disease implies something is wrong, but having trouble focusing isn’t “wrong”. It’s a skill one can acquire and may have a variety of factors impacting it (from genetics to environment to mental management). That’s the issue I personally take with these kind of discussions. Medicati…

There's a huge difference between having a little trouble focusing, and struggling all fucking day to focus... then realizing at the end of the day, you have been working all day, but bouncing between tasks so much that you really got nothing done. It's frustrating and debilitating and makes you feel like a complete piece of shit. Then because you're not doing as well as everybody around you, you dwell on it at night, and you don't sleep. And you know what no sleep does? It exacerbates the problem, and so you have to struggle even harder when you're exhausted just to get things done. Then you spend all weekend sleeping, because it's the only 2 nights of the week where you don't have to go back to work the next day, and fail yet again. Then you start to feel like your life is this fucking cycle of struggle every week, with no personal accomplishments.

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#158

Post by smittywerben »

TrevorJ wrote: post #91

This doesn't surprise me. I've been prescribed Ritalin at times both as a child and an adult in small doses. It is a remarkable strong medication, and operates much like I imagine recreational drugs operate - there's a definite strong high, and an equally brutal comedown afterword. I would be extremely cautious about prescribing this to anyone, especially children unless nearly every other kind of intervention has be…

> I would be extremely cautious about prescribing this to anyone, especially children unless nearly every other kind of intervention has been explored.

A well-trained psychiatrist can diagnose me in [1] https://chadd.org/about-adhd/myths-and-misunderstandings/

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#159

Post by citilife »

ericd wrote: post #37
adastra22 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone with ADHD, who has a kid with ADHD, this dismissive attitude is really unwelcome. Inattentiveness is a real symptom with drastic life-altering effects for which medication is a godsend. Studies have shown that exposure to screen time does not result in ADHD. To be told "you're just a bad parent who lets their kid watch an iPad too much" is infuriating. (I'm trying to keep things civil per the site rules, b…

Maybe don't take it personally, I think they're saying that much of society is doing it wrong. EDIT: But yes, they’re also saying that many parents are doing it wrong, and they’re assigning much of the blame to parenting. My point was that when a huge percentage of parents are “doing it wrong”, maybe there’s some wider systemic thing at play. Like economic forces that make people work harder than they should if they…

To be clear, I'm actually blaming therapists and "mental health experts".

Parents are clearly doing their best and looking for support. The "experts" are paid (in many cases) through recurring attendance and kick-backs from pharma... why would we assume they'd want to resolve the issue any other way? Even the research is often funded by pharma... Note the NIH even receives revenue (and individual scientists) from creating patents associated with drugs.

Here's something I posted in another comment, but ADHD / Depression is a "disease" is a bucket of symptoms that impair an organisms normal function.

1. I would argue that what you describe isn't impairing normal function. It's that we are attempting to make children do abnormal things (sit in a room all day and be lectured at. At the end you have an exam). Society is failing to raise children properly and expecting things that are abnormal for the human animal.

2. A disease is basically diagnosed from a bucket of symptoms. Those symptoms will have different causes. Without taking a measured approach at identifying the causes, you are likely going to see a plethora of factors. These can and do include things like hyperactivity from siting and watching TV (now they have energy and want to move). Things of that nature.

Now to compound the issue, look at how all the parents are responding. There is no way they'd consider alternatives.

One way I try to explain it to people: "We give people insulin because they have diabetes. Diabetes is the disease, but you can cure it through diet and exercise for Type 2 (it's environmental), Type 1 you cannot (it's genetic). Insulin treats the disease, but doesn't cure it".

Why are we giving all the kids medication instead of trying to have them diet and exercise (or what ever equivalent)?

Parents in this thread are taking it very personally, but in reality I'm trying to discuss ways to treat the underlying issue(s). And yes, I am saying that there are societal, family, etc expectations and management that can be employed to remove symptoms of the disease (which in effect would "cure" the disease).

Re: Association between ADHD medication and depression: A 10-year follow-up

#160

Post by colecut »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #100

It’s worth mentioning that ADHD also increases the risk of depression. Along with anxiety, depression is one of the most common comorbidities particularly in people with undiagnosed ADHD. I didn’t take ADHD meds as a kid, so I can’t speak to their effect on me. But when diagnosed as an adult, I had suffered nearly my whole life with chronic depression and anxiety. Both reached a crisis level a few years back, which w…

Can I ask what medication is working for you?
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