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Scotland starts renewed case for independence

gov.scot

621–630 of 745 posts

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#621

Scottish independence is a bad idea for many of the same reasons that Brexit was a bad idea and Brexit has made Scottish independence into a much worse idea. Instead of being like the Czechoslovak break-up it would be more like the issues around the Northern Irish border. Having a huge land border which is an EU/non-EU border with customs controls would be massive economic disruption on both sides of the border. The…

> Having a huge land border which is an EU/non-EU border with customs controls would be massive economic disruption on both sides of the border.

Is it really considered a huge border? There's only 5 roads that cross it.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#622
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared with whom and on what criteria?

1. A PM who lies about attending a party, and runs with the lie until he is forced to admit it by a report and photographic evidence. 2. A PM who lied to the Queen. 3. Food poverty on the up [1] 5. £350m a week for NHS post Brexit, and yet that was a blatant lie. NHS now struggling with many staff quitting post covid and as a result of increased work load due to brexit. The list goes on. [1] British medical journal (…

None of those really seem to make the UK worse than other countries.

1. A politician being a hypocrite. I'm shocked!

2. A politician who lied. I'm shocked!

3. Seems to be happening in many countries?

5. Nursing and doctor shortages are happening in other countries as well.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#623
post #509
post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain and France aren't super keen on encouraging the general idea that regions of a country can easily split off and become independent EU member countries.

Spain I understand. But I dunno about France. It's not the Auld Alliance is still a thing, but surely they'd relish an opportunity to give England a black eye.

Being French I can tell you we really discourage it because we don’t have just one region but several! You have Corsica who wants to be independent, Alsace who wants to be independent or linked to Germany and sometimes Basque linked with the Basque region of Spain.

But all that was at its apex years ago now it’s more stable.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#624
post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is entirely correct that the IRA determine the UK's custom borders. Completely foolish to think otherwise.

This is a nonsense comment, but you probably know that. Northern Ireland was opposed to Brexit, and the Northern Ireland Protocol is supported by a majority of representatives in Northern Ireland. Nothing to do with the IRA.

Unionists make up the majority of Northern Ireland and they are against having a customs border within the same country.

The whole justification for not having a border between Northern and Southern Ireland is "the peace process" which is a euphimism for not upsetting the IRA.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#625

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't help thinking there is a certain tension between wanting to be an independent country, and then also wanting to join the EU and give up your currency. Most of the new powers you would gain under independence would be given away again.

> there is a certain tension between wanting to be an independent country, and then also wanting to join the EU Not necessarily. For example, regarding official languages, there's no way that Gaelic would be an official EU language if Ireland was not directly part of the EU. And if Catalonia gained its independence, then Catalan would likely become an officially recognized language in the EU (which it isn't, due to s…

So they could have a language, but lose most of everything else?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Scotland likely won't be part of the EU on an exit from the UK. If a country wanted to move to the EU, why move to a country that's just undergone an economic shock, and with new political divisions forming as competing visions of the future and huge uncertainty, rather than move to Ireland which is relatively stable politically and also has English as the working language, and a much larger existing financial sector…

"Scotland won't be part of the EU" Oh yes, and voting for Remain is the only way to stay in the EU. I think that argument has long since sailed. The EU will undoubtedly fasttrack Scotland straight back into the EU and single market before independence arrives. As a major English-speaking country in the EU, with ports at the periphery of Europe, strong exports, and a finance capital, Scotland will be in a great positi…

> strong exports

Scotland's biggest trading partner (by far) is the UK. In 2017 Scotland was a net importer from the rest of the UK.

Imports from the UK would have to have an EU customs tariffs applied, and Scotland has almost no influence on what those would be.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#627
post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are at least 2 factors you miss: - The EU would have less of an influence than Westminster does. - The people of Scotland believe their desires are more aligned with those of other countries, than with England.

If the Scots want to leave a declining Empire A and to join a rising Empire B, I don't have issue with that. What I have issue with is calling that "independence", because that's not what that word usually means.

You ignored this part of parent's response.

"The EU would have less of an influence than Westminster does"

For example. Did the UK require permission from the EU in order to hold the Brexit referendum?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#628
post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rwanda is a country with a recent successful history of rehabilitating refugees, and the president reached out to offer a home to those who need it. Not sure how well there success is measured after recently finding out about this: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/climate-and-people...

Israel also had a similar arrangement which collapsed after it was found to break Israeli law. Apparently some journalists tried to track down the refugees involved in that scheme some years later and found barely a handful had remained in the country. My suspicion is this is just a short term attempt to boost the PMs popularity among the segment of his support base who think mistreatment of refugees and immigrants i…

It's just sweeping a problem under a carpet approach.

Real solution is alas one that eludes us today. The real issue is the blur in lines between economic migrant and refugee, with one used to bismish the other and anything to address the former being classed as an attack upon the later. Hence the whole subject is just a can or worms that just does not get dealt with.

As for the UK, when the majority of the economic and refugee's arrive via safe countries like France then it kinda adds a whole layer of debate that you just don't get with other countries migrant/refugee problems.

Honestly should be that people who need to escape a country for fear of their life should be able to walk into any other countries embasy and apply for asylum. That though is still not a thing, which only helps fuel illegal smugglers who will take refugees and economic migrants equally if they have the money. Which is the bigger sadness of all with how things are working currently as how many true refugee's in fear of their life have died as they had no means to pay for a way out! That whole aspect of thought is just sadening and yet, overlooked as the focus is all about those who had the means or morals to pay smugglers and can imagine there are those who probably had the means but equally ethics and morals that meant they were unwilling to pay in effect crimininals.

So I guess changing how people apply for Ayslum and the ability to walk into the nearest forign embassy would certainly be a start in solving things.

Then distibution equally needs to be fair around the Globe, so no one country becomes burgened, though that would be a whole area of debate the UN could work out. Certainly the ability to apply at embassys would be huge improvment.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#629
post #596

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is, for me, a feature, not a bug. Consent is a great thing. Many people of smaller nations like Czechs, that regained sovereignty after a long period of subjugation to various powers, do not really want to give it up again so that the French-German axis may have their job easier.

Why did they join the EU in the first place then? Was it for the money and having some entity to blame for domestic policy failures? The last point is what politicians here in Austria like to do

We entered a EU that had veto powers for each member and I, personally, would like to stay it that way.

The fact that you once joined an organization does not mean that you must agree with any subsequent development.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#630
post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The teenager is a terrorist sympathiser who left the UK to join Isis. And she isn’t a teenager any more.

Irrespective of what she may or may not have done, her citizenship was stripped on flimsy legal pretexts to satisfy their racist supporters.

That's total bollocks.
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