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Scotland starts renewed case for independence

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Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#381

Post by Ntrails »

cjrp wrote: post #251
mantas wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Denmark's left-wing government is planning to send away asylum seekers too. It's interesting times when protecting borders from illegal immigration is seen as „far right“. It's not „far right“ rising, it's some people pushing Overton window extremely to the left. https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/denmark-talks-with-rwan...

> protecting borders from illegal immigration Asylum-seeking is not illegal immigration.

> Asylum-seeking is not illegal immigration

Economic migration under the guise of asylum seeking is though. And pretending that all the people who make the attempt to gain Asylum in the UK are legitimate non-economic migrants is absurd.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#382

Post by dubeye »

iso1631 wrote: post #361
swarnie wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vote for this! > What is it? > We dont know yet! Doesn't seem like a brilliant idea from where i'm sat. I think the comparison to Brexit will come up a lot, arguing for a similar process with six years of hindsight is... questionable....

Especially given the SNP rightly said that the brexit vote was a con with no substance

SNP will steal anything from Brexit campaign that worked.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#383

Post by jasonlotito »

mantas wrote: post #225
SilverBirch wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Excuse me, but literally today is the first day that the government starting flying asylum seekers to Rwanda[1], and yesterday they published legislation with the intention of breaking international law[2]. They've also recently curtailed rights to legal protest[3]. The Prime Minister has a history of law breaking including illegally shutting down our parliament[4]. This government only got their majority when UKIP c…

Denmark's left-wing government is planning to send away asylum seekers too. It's interesting times when protecting borders from illegal immigration is seen as „far right“. It's not „far right“ rising, it's some people pushing Overton window extremely to the left. https://www.reuters.com/world/africa/denmark-talks-with-rwan...

No post body was provided.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#384

Post by petesergeant »

dubeye wrote: post #280
swarnie wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some really basic questions will need to be answered. 1) What currecny are you using? 2) Where is your central bank? 3) What debt will you be departing with? 4) What cuts will be required when you can no longer take 32bn a year via the Barnett formula? Just simple, fundamental things really.

They need to be answered at some point, but not necessarily before the referendum. Not saying it's a best way to do it, but it's the most likely way. Brexit for example, was a referendum on a very broad question, the specifics were worked out afterwards. But most likely there will be a transition period, where monetary sovereignty is sacrificed in the short term, to allow central bank to be set up and votes held on v…

> They need to be answered at some point, but not necessarily before the referendum

It would be well within Westminster's powers to say "sure, draw up a costed budget first and answer the big questions, get OBR sign-off, and we're good to go!"

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#385

Post by synu »

jfk13 wrote: post #302
synu wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it’s a close vote and circumstances are changing rapidly, I’d say pretty often. Maybe every two or three years until some kind of consensus emerges? It seems like an important topic you wouldn’t want to suppress except for once every sixty years or whatever, and might force some negotiation to get to a better place whether through independence or reconciliation. This is assuming the role of the government here i…

> When it’s a close vote and circumstances are changing rapidly, I’d say pretty often And if you hold the vote every 2-3 years, and the result alternates between Yes and No, at what point will you say "stop, this is a final decision"?

Several inconclusive outcomes don't add up to one conclusive one.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#386

Post by atoav »

bennysomething wrote: post #362
cstross wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For non-UK people: There are four nations in the UK (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland). But England has roughly 90% of the population of the UK. So what England votes for in an all-nations referendum, the rest of the UK gets. England voted for Brexit by a narrow-ish majority. But Scotland voted against Brexit by a huge margin -- 62/38, or approximately 3:2. Ironically, the year before the Brexit referendum…

Speaking of being misled, we were pretty much promised by the Scottish nationalists that this was a once in a generation choice. Seems we voted wrong the last time so here we are again with all the uncertainty to go with it. Though right now I want the second referendum as it's probably the best way to end the uncertainty that SNP causing

I am an outsider on the topic, but wouldn't such a stark change of the political landscape as Brexit be a really valid reason to ask the question again?

After all, independence before would have meant exiting the EU, while it now could mean re-entering it. Independence is ultimately the question about how a region wants to see itself in the world, and the alliances you are in are a big factor in that qestion.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#387

Post by Freak_NL »

ivolimmen wrote: post #4
afavour wrote: post #2

As a Brit that didn’t want Scotland to be independent last time around: good luck to them. Brexit has shown very clearly that Scotland wants to chart a different path to England and IMO they should be allowed to do it. …just be generous to English folks seeking asylum from Tory rule, yeah?

As a Dutch and EU citizen I fully understand their motivation. I also regretted to see England leave the EU.

A few years ago when the Union Jack had to go from the row of EU flags (because of Brexit), my city's council (of the Dutch town of Leeuwarden) replaced it with suitable alternative:

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.1969993,5.7943724,3a,75y,247...

Scottish folk seem to appreciate the gesture. :)

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#388

Post by capableweb »

Seems this submission is being flagged, because it's disappearing very quickly from the frontpage. Obviously, the story is of great interest, as seen by the huge amount of comments and upvotes, so maybe moderators/dang could "pin" it or whatever to make the flags less aggressive?

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#389

Post by synu »

kibwen wrote: post #346
synu wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does the UK really run these kind of referendum based on a simple 50% majority? That seems like a recipe for chaos (if true).

Brexit passed with 51.89% of the vote, so apparently.

Well that seems quite silly. You'd think you'd want a majority for a big, hard to reverse decision like that, otherwise it will oscillate back and forth.

Re: Scotland starts renewed case for independence

#390

Post by rootusrootus »

hardlianotion wrote: post #167
dale_glass wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's silly. I have no dog in this fight, but people are allowed to change their opinion, especially as circumstances change. If what your choice was based on changed, then it's perfectly logical for your choice to change in response. Holding up to "once in a generation" promises is stupid, though so was making such a claim to start with.

Referenda that have a profound impact on your system of government should be rare. There is an impact on both economies in terms of investment and planning. They should be offered in a once in a generation basis. Many (most?) countries have constitutions that forbid splitting up the country. UK is pretty unusual in providing for a referendum of the type that happened in 2014.

Or, you know, require a supermajority instead of disenfranchising voters. You could vote once a day if you did not put the threshold at 50% plus 1.
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