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We will never have enough software developers (2020)

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Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#21
post #8

I read an article some time ago with the reasoning that went like this: "The goal of software development is to automate things. So, in principle, with time there should be less demand for software development skills because most of the hard work has already been done, and we have better, more high level tools. The only reason we see demand for software developers growing is because we let the bad developers in :) Ba…

Most work going on is feature work in my experience. Not bug fixes.

Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#22
post #10

There isn't a shortage of software developers. The pay isn't great--the kids getting $300K packages out of Stanford are an exception; it's a marketing expense. In fact, if you control for the level of intelligence it takes to be any good, SWEs make less (and get far less autonomy--do you think lawyers work on Jira tickets?) than any other professional, and they hit a salary/challenge plateau quick... after which, the…

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Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#23
post #10

There isn't a shortage of software developers. The pay isn't great--the kids getting $300K packages out of Stanford are an exception; it's a marketing expense. In fact, if you control for the level of intelligence it takes to be any good, SWEs make less (and get far less autonomy--do you think lawyers work on Jira tickets?) than any other professional, and they hit a salary/challenge plateau quick... after which, the…

SWE's are not the only ones that think that their pay is low compared to their intelligence level, their education level, how tough, inconvenient or important their work is or what they feel they deserve for some other reason.

For instance, I'm sure there are plenty of HR managers in various companies that are secretly furious about all the young young mostly males, mostly white or asian, still in their 20s, join the company and make more than they do.

Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#24
post #7

A fascinating premise, and matches what I saw as an engineering director. The best just get bored and move on. I think many teams are unaware how much extra value is possible by retaining existing employees vs hiring new ones. Each year I'd try to make sure I was "making them an offer they couldn't refuse" with new interesting challenges, new tech, plenty of personal research time, as much pay increase as I could pos…

its not just the best ones. If you remove people from the grind for 1-2 days a week, give them a small budget and enough autonomy to do what they want, most people will fix shit that bugged them for a long time. The main problem is how micromanage-y the current development processes are. Everything has to be a ticket/user story and has to be planned and approved by some people that never even wrote a single line of c…

We can’t even push to a git repo unless it has a linked work item/story/task/bug.

So, in order to say, upgrade packages or refactor difficult to read code, the work item needs to be approved by a non-tech PO.

Guess how much gets done outside of planned/micromanaged? Answer: next to nothing.

Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#25

A fascinating premise, and matches what I saw as an engineering director. The best just get bored and move on. I think many teams are unaware how much extra value is possible by retaining existing employees vs hiring new ones. Each year I'd try to make sure I was "making them an offer they couldn't refuse" with new interesting challenges, new tech, plenty of personal research time, as much pay increase as I could pos…

My experience, unfortunately, is that good managers like you seem to be don't last long. They get replaced by manage-up sleazeballs who'll never, ever protect the people beneath them because it's not game-theoretically optimal.

The thing is, executives measure themselves by how quickly they get promoted into the next role, so no one cares that good management might reduce turnover in the next 2-3 years--in fact, the executive mindset is that it could just as easily increase turnover (what if we invest in their careers, and they leave?)

Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#26
post #10

There isn't a shortage of software developers. The pay isn't great--the kids getting $300K packages out of Stanford are an exception; it's a marketing expense. In fact, if you control for the level of intelligence it takes to be any good, SWEs make less (and get far less autonomy--do you think lawyers work on Jira tickets?) than any other professional, and they hit a salary/challenge plateau quick... after which, the…

Agreed. I made more from owning and living in a house than I can possibly save from SWE job.

How do you make money from owning and living in a house?

Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#27
post #10

There isn't a shortage of software developers. The pay isn't great--the kids getting $300K packages out of Stanford are an exception; it's a marketing expense. In fact, if you control for the level of intelligence it takes to be any good, SWEs make less (and get far less autonomy--do you think lawyers work on Jira tickets?) than any other professional, and they hit a salary/challenge plateau quick... after which, the…

Agreed. I made more from owning and living in a house than I can possibly save from SWE job.

It’s housing that’s the anomaly there though, not SWE salaries.

Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#28
post #19

There should really be a surplus of software developers. Most companies are solving problems they don't have, employing a team of 10x more developers than they need - because of course microservices, Kafka, Kubernetes, you name it - cargo culting the shit out of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OnoxKotPQ

That video is story of my life. Microservices to the brim!!!

Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#29

>High-ability workers are faster learners, in all jobs. However, the relative return to ability is higher in careers that change less, because learning gains accumulate. This is not the only reason for the quick learner -> high dropout thing. By the article's definition, I'd be a "fast learner". Most of the industry expects me to come in already knowing what they want me to know, while most ways to obtain said knowle…

"somehow you're expecting me to stay while my knowledge deteriorates unless I keep it up in my own time, all the while giving lowball raises and not satisfying my desire for challenges"

That's not really the expectation... the expectation is that you'll be replaced by someone younger who's already learned all that.

The expectation for more senior people is that they'll go in to management or architecture.. or maybe burn out.. it doesn't really matter to most corporations, as their workers are replaceable.

Re: We will never have enough software developers (2020)

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. I made more from owning and living in a house than I can possibly save from SWE job.

How do you make money from owning and living in a house?

It goes up in value. Also interests rates decreasing means more immediate money in lower living costs.
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