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I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

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Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#331

Post by whazor »

cbarrick wrote: post #244
Sujan wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It might be worth contacting these extensions' creators. If you already have the `.vsix` file for the VSCode marketplace, publishing to open-vsix is really super simple (create an account once, get a token, add a few lines to your publish script, e.g. https://github.com/prisma/language-tools/blob/94e4cd612d03ef... ). Some just do not know about it.

PyLance and the remote extensions are developed by Microsoft. They intentionally do not work with the open source editor.

Have you actually tried installing PyLance in VS Codium? I have not and also do not know if it works. But PyLance is available in https://open-vsx.org/extension/ms-python/python and it seems there are no license issues.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#332

Post by 7steps2much »

mbesto wrote: post #329
7steps2much wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think you've now answered your "is this hard to do?"... Did i buy the product "as is"? If it is an open source product then i agree with you, the product is provided as is. However, in my mind this is not the case with a commerical products. When I buy something, whether it is software, a car or a a washing machine i have a contract that outlines what i am buying. If the product contains bugs/manufacturing defect…

> If the product contains bugs/manufacturing defects/etc. then i expect the manufacturer to either fix those or refund me. This analogy doesn't work with software. If you put your fridge in your house and your power goes out, you can very clearly see that your fridge is inoperable because of your power, not the fridge. Now let's try this with software: - The software you buy supports Linux v16 but not v18. You upgrad…

Those aren't manufacturing defects. They are all changes of dependencies that should be made clear in the contract anyways.

I have to admit that i am not too familiar with how Linux versioning works (more of a windows environment guy), but if I buy software that was developed for windows 7, that stops working on windows 10 then it's obviously not a manufacturing defect. That's me changing to OS to a none supported one. I believe that "System Requirements" is a fair section for software to have.

And assuming that i was informed before hand that the software depends on Twilio API version X.Y i won't see those changes as a manufacturing defect either.

In my opinion, manufacturing defects are things such as:

- the software corrupting data during normal operation - the software behaving differently than specified in the documentation - the software not handling edge cases correctly

> easy to use extensible API for all SMS providers

Don't ever use that language within your technical/legal documents. It's fine for marketing, but when it comes to specifications always be specific. If you write something like this, but not what Providers/API in particular you are using/offering then don't be surprised if I am annoyed when your software stops working. After all I literally had no way of knowing what you supported, you didn't give me that very specific information.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#333

Post by Shared404 »

belltaco wrote: post #324
wiseowise wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have access to private jet? Because everyone has access to, for instance, Atom source code. Even if they can't use it.

Everyone has access to private jets, even if they can't afford them. https://www.avbuyer.com/aircraft/private-jets

Anyone with access to a computer (a prerequisite to use software in this context in the first place[0]), also has access to the tools to learn to perform these actions.

Pretty sure most people don't have the ability to teach themselves to fly a private jet and then walk up and take off.

[0] Setting aside phones/mobile. Yes they exist, yes they're important. No they're not relevant to this thread.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#334

Post by mbesto »

7steps2much wrote: post #332
mbesto wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the product contains bugs/manufacturing defects/etc. then i expect the manufacturer to either fix those or refund me. This analogy doesn't work with software. If you put your fridge in your house and your power goes out, you can very clearly see that your fridge is inoperable because of your power, not the fridge. Now let's try this with software: - The software you buy supports Linux v16 but not v18. You upgrad…

Those aren't manufacturing defects. They are all changes of dependencies that should be made clear in the contract anyways. I have to admit that i am not too familiar with how Linux versioning works (more of a windows environment guy), but if I buy software that was developed for windows 7, that stops working on windows 10 then it's obviously not a manufacturing defect. That's me changing to OS to a none supported on…

I don't understand why you responded to those two specific examples, I simply made them up because they were two plausible cases for "the environment changes and your contract needs a whole bunch of if/then statements to allow for them under the rules you've created to be successful and find so simple". I'm still amazed your not getting the point yet, which is:

- Think really hard about every possible permutation license software could encounter and then multiply that by 100x and that's how you would need to structure this imaginary contract you keep referring to.

- Said contract would be expensive and require a very technically knowledgable lawyer (see my reference to Google/Oracle which you conveniently glossed over). In case you are unaware: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_LLC_v._Oracle_America,_....

It's mind boggling to me that software developers (which, based on your language, I presume you are) understand the intricacies and complexities of software development, yet are so hand wavy about the realities of busy "see its just so easy...".

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#335

Post by ValleZ »

xigoi wrote: post #145
ValleZ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because most developers are not willing to learn even basic code completion and refactoring functions in IDE. When you write constructors and getters by hand in Intellij Idea, chances are you won’t pay for that.

Vim has auto-completion and snippets. I don't use VSCode, but I'm pretty sure it does too. So what's the point of paying for them?

Did you try any IDE from Intellij? Just spend 30 minutes on exploring what can it do out of the box.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#336

Post by ValleZ »

xigoi wrote: post #145
ValleZ wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is because most developers are not willing to learn even basic code completion and refactoring functions in IDE. When you write constructors and getters by hand in Intellij Idea, chances are you won’t pay for that.

Vim has auto-completion and snippets. I don't use VSCode, but I'm pretty sure it does too. So what's the point of paying for them?

And since you don't use an IDE you can try to spend this time on exploring what an IDE can do. If you really write code you can write code 10-100x faster.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#337

Post by einpoklum »

> There is nothing wrong with an organization following an open-core princip[le].

In itself, maybe, but MS is crippling the ability to use the open core. Plus, there _is_ something wrong with using the state to prevent people from copying information amongst themselves.

> Microsoft still has to pay for the developers who contribute to VS Code and other bills associated with VS Code and running the extension store.

If that's the justification, then it's BS. Microsoft has enough money to pay for this stuff many time over. Plus, the indirect financial benefit of people working in an MS app or environment is high enough.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#338

Post by indrora »

hamdouni wrote: post #330
indrora wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calling GCC a "good" compiler is going a bit far, imo. LLVM has become the dominant compiler framework (and thus clang, clang++, golang, etc use it) because of corporate interests. GCC as it's constructed is a horrible framework. The way you port GCC to a new platform (say, a weird ARM variant) is to fork it hard and mangle multiple parts of the internals , then carefully feed it back. It's a mess. Nobody should be f…

Are you sure golang use LLVM ? I'm pretty sure it is not the case...

Oh, so it would seem not. Mea culpa.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#339

Post by mckravchyk »

nybble41 wrote: post #328
mckravchyk wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Except I can still use discontinued open source software like Atom. The same thing can be said about desktop proprietary software, so long as it does not rely on a cloud service to function. > Try installing an older version of an app on an old iPhone. The app store won't let you. You might be able to jailbreak the phone and track down an older version of the app, but it's a pain and Apple makes it as difficult as…

> That said, open source have this edge that if it's just too obsolete for the dependencies, you can hope someone would patch it if it's popular enough. It would be harder to patch a proprietary app. IMHO this understates the difference, severely. The open source app can be maintained by the community for as long as it has a community. That includes not just dealing with dependency obsolescence but also new features,…

Surely that's a good point and it would definitely help, but just because something is open source does not necessarily mean that it will stay alive in the way you describe it - especially redesign or new features. Patches is the best the user of an abandoned app could hope for.

My point was mainly in the context of Electron desktop apps, an abandoned, proprietary Electron app would probably run for at least 5 years * without touching it after it's abandoned. Further from that point patching it so it works would not be that hard. On the other hand I imagine an unmaintained C++ desktop app could decay pretty fast if it depends on some external lib so here a proprietary app could indeed be very hard or next to impossible to patch.

* I did not consider security patches though, if an Electron app processes potentially untrusted third party files and / or connects to external services, it may require security patches and that would be also hard / impossible to patch, I agree here - though updating its Electron binary could go a long way with security, which is not that hard.

Edit: Ok, I guess there may be issues with Electron too. If Electron binary is kept up to date, Electron deprecates some APIs regularly and that could break it. So it's either that or running a very old Electron instance - which may or may not be fine, depending on the app and how it's used.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#340

Post by nybble41 »

mckravchyk wrote: post #339
nybble41 wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That said, open source have this edge that if it's just too obsolete for the dependencies, you can hope someone would patch it if it's popular enough. It would be harder to patch a proprietary app. IMHO this understates the difference, severely. The open source app can be maintained by the community for as long as it has a community. That includes not just dealing with dependency obsolescence but also new features,…

Surely that's a good point and it would definitely help, but just because something is open source does not necessarily mean that it will stay alive in the way you describe it - especially redesign or new features. Patches is the best the user of an abandoned app could hope for. My point was mainly in the context of Electron desktop apps, an abandoned, proprietary Electron app would probably run for at least 5 years…

> … just because something is open source does not necessarily mean that it will stay alive in the way you describe it - especially redesign or new features.

True, being open source doesn't guarantee that the app will be maintained. It does, however, provide the legal framework to make it possible. If the app has an active user base then it's likely that someone would step up to take over the development, and the open source nature of the project means that the new maintainers are not starting at a significant disadvantage.

> My point was mainly in the context of Electron desktop apps, an abandoned, proprietary Electron app would probably run for at least 5 years * without touching it after it's abandoned. Further from that point patching it so it works would not be that hard.

Okay, so you're assuming an app distributed mostly in source form to begin with. That's fair, but an Electron app can be minified or obfuscated (and in the case of a proprietary app, probably would be) so it wouldn't necessarily be easier to work with than a compiled binary. You also still have the copyright issues which would make it difficult to collaborate on any patches.

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