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I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

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Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#141

Post by xigoi »

joshstrange wrote: post #84
tharne wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. We're not resistant to paying, we're resistant to rent-seeking. I would, and have, happily buy a piece of software I use regularly. What I will not do is a pay a monthly fee…

JetBrains products have a perpetual fallback license so you absolutely can pay up front and then never pay again if you are ok being on an older version of the software. Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. JetBrains products have an open-core (IntelliJ [0])…

> Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications.

It's about having the option. It shouldn't be the case that you have to modify your editor's source code, but if it's open source, at least you can do that. With a proprietary editor, you're screwed.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#143

Post by joshstrange »

heurisko wrote: post #139
joshstrange wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JetBrains products have a perpetual fallback license so you absolutely can pay up front and then never pay again if you are ok being on an older version of the software. Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. JetBrains products have an open-core (IntelliJ [0])…

I'm a fan of Jetbrains and am now on their discounted subscription. They are quite involved in the development of languages too. My suspicion is they have an interest in creating new language features, that users will need updated IDEs for!

> My suspicion is they have an interest in creating new language features, that users will need updated IDEs for.

Don’t throw me in the briar patch?

If they are pushing languages forward so that developers can do more or things more efficiently then sign me up haha.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#144

Post by bbbobbb »

tharne wrote: post #103
joshstrange wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JetBrains products have a perpetual fallback license so you absolutely can pay up front and then never pay again if you are ok being on an older version of the software. Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. JetBrains products have an open-core (IntelliJ [0])…

> Lastly you say "None of these things are a big ask.", you just want the world on a silver platter for no cost, sorry but that is a big ask, Silver platter? Lol. Each of these things would require *less* effort on the part of software companies, not more. Upfront payment? It's easier to charge once than to set up recurring bill pay. Open source? You already have the code, just let me see it. Tracking? Just don't tra…

Are you ignoring the 'perpetual fallback license'? I would expect you'd welcome it if it is such a strong point for you. You can pay once for JetBrains IDE and never ever update (or even access older version) and keep using it after that.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#145

Post by xigoi »

ValleZ wrote: post #59
jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

This is because most developers are not willing to learn even basic code completion and refactoring functions in IDE. When you write constructors and getters by hand in Intellij Idea, chances are you won’t pay for that.

Vim has auto-completion and snippets. I don't use VSCode, but I'm pretty sure it does too. So what's the point of paying for them?

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#146

Post by sudo_chmod777 »

buf wrote: post #16

I started using vim 13 years ago. Editors come. Editors go. Vim remains.

This. And actually only up until a while ago did my co-workers still think using Vim was just some weird flex. Then a live coding session which was not about Vim at all I did somehow showcased how fast I was able to be in Vim, now everyone is interested in obtaining the superpower.

That being said I'm still extremely grateful for what Microsoft has done in standardising things like LSP, DAP, etc. It changed the game for Vim, Emacs, Kakoune, not to mention new players like Helix.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#147

Post by terhechte »

netr0ute wrote: post #126
imwillofficial wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“It is impossible for libre software to force updates” This isn’t even close to being true

Any evidence to back that up?

I think Gnome / GTK is a good example. Famously, the Budgie Desktop Environment will have to be rewritten on top of Enlightenment because they don't like the GTK 4 changes. So now they're forced to go to a different widget system. [1]

[1] https://joshuastrobl.com/2021/09/14/building-an-alternative-...

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#148

Post by Volundr »

jebronie wrote: post #117
realusername wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of them are They just aren't, I would not switch to Jetbrains from VSCode even if it was free. It's not a question of pricing and Jetbrains themselves started to realise it since they are building some VSC clone (forgot the name right now)

They just are though, once you realise how much more powerful they are. I had a collegue until recently (he was let go), who was a staunch VSCode fan that refused to use Jetbrains IDEs. His code is terrible and riddled with bugs. Most of them were even easily detected by the Jetbrains IDEs. Now I have to clean up his shitty projects. He also spend a lot of time configuring his shitty VSCode instead of working.

I've tried IntelliJ for both Elixir and Clojure. While Cursive is ok, I can confidently say that the vscode Elixir support is far, far better, and in Cursive vs Cider I'd take Cider any day.

Yeah, if your writing Kotlin/Java IntelliJ is a no-brainer, but for many of us the situation is much more nuanced.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#149

Post by joshstrange »

xigoi wrote: post #141
joshstrange wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JetBrains products have a perpetual fallback license so you absolutely can pay up front and then never pay again if you are ok being on an older version of the software. Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. JetBrains products have an open-core (IntelliJ [0])…

> Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. It's about having the option. It shouldn't be the case that you have to modify your editor's source code, but if it's open source, at least you can do that. With a proprietary editor, you're screwed.

How are you screwed?

If you don’t like something, switch editors. I don’t understand why some people self-flagellate and don’t just pick the right tool for the job. I’m very pro-open-source but that doesn’t mean proprietary software is all evil, you’ll drive yourself crazy if you take that to its logical end.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#150

Post by Beltalowda »

premun wrote: post #42
Kwpolska wrote: post #6

Their main argument is “no telemetry” (or sometimes “no cemetery tracking”…), but VS Code has a setting to disable telemetry [0], and I would trust that it’s really disabled if you set it so (why would they lie about something quite trivial to check with Wireshark or such?) > I’m sure there is a small performance gain because you don’t have telemetry running in the background sending data to Microsoft. Have you profi…

I agree but also - a controversial opinion - I am pretty sure Microsoft collects the kind of telemetry to learn about user behavior and improve the IDE, and not to collect private information for some kind of other gain. I am sure that whoever develops Codium will eventually get into a dead-end at some point because they won't have any telemetry connected to the product usage. Other piece is that Codium might inheren…

> I am sure that whoever develops Codium will eventually get into a dead-end at some point because they won't have any telemetry connected to the product usage.

Note that VSCodium is not a fork; it's just a build of the open-source VSCode parts with telemetry patched out and a few other minor changes.

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