It sort of blows up the whole pro gun control argument that citizens shouldn't be expected to have to protect themselves but instead rely on law enforcement :p
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Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
171–180 of 247 posts
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#172Are we afraid won't actually do their job when it actually involves putting themselves in danger? I think the cat is out of the bag on that one. Quite famously, the police are much better at shooting children [1] than they are at shooting to protect children. The Uvalde PD consumes 40% of the town budget ($4m of $10m exclusive of a $500k grant they got from the state of Texas months earlier). 19 police officers were…
We live in a surveillance society now. This individual that attacked the school wasn’t operating in stealth: he let his murderious intentions be known on social media. The choice now is whether to believe that law enforcement at the local and federal level simply turned a blind eye, or they knew and helped guide this individual to action in order to use the public reaction to advance the gun control agenda. And while…
State-level elected officials in Texas ain’t exactly known for their interest in increasing gun control, and they’re at least enabling the Uvalde police department in this cover-up.
Source: grew up in Texas, still have all my well-armed family there.
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#173Are we afraid won't actually do their job when it actually involves putting themselves in danger? I think the cat is out of the bag on that one. Quite famously, the police are much better at shooting children [1] than they are at shooting to protect children. The Uvalde PD consumes 40% of the town budget ($4m of $10m exclusive of a $500k grant they got from the state of Texas months earlier). 19 police officers were…
We live in a surveillance society now. This individual that attacked the school wasn’t operating in stealth: he let his murderious intentions be known on social media. The choice now is whether to believe that law enforcement at the local and federal level simply turned a blind eye, or they knew and helped guide this individual to action in order to use the public reaction to advance the gun control agenda. And while…
No post body was provided.
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#174Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like what?
Like a lesser degree of manslaughter. If they prevented people from entering that could have saved lives.
Even for negligent manslaughter, that would require a "specific duty" to act, which police officers do not have towards individuals unless there is a special prior arrangement in place.
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#175Earlier quoted context omitted.
Accountability is the issue. If they can tax you by force, they're not going to put themselves in harms way. They already got paid. (Generalization of course, but true in many life-and-death situations.)
Most people won't willingly die at work for any amount of money or accountability, and I don't blame them. These kinds of situations are outrageous because people want to believe in superheros, but they don't exist.
To protect and serve*
If we could choose our police like our cell service, I'd pay for the police force that required military service or punished officers who did not act when they should
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#176Are we afraid won't actually do their job when it actually involves putting themselves in danger? I think the cat is out of the bag on that one. Quite famously, the police are much better at shooting children [1] than they are at shooting to protect children. The Uvalde PD consumes 40% of the town budget ($4m of $10m exclusive of a $500k grant they got from the state of Texas months earlier). 19 police officers were…
> But nothing here will change. It's hard but it's important to keep faith, and to keep working to change people's minds about police. Even your comment can make a difference: a place like HN is full of intelligent people who generally come here fairly open minded. Maybe your comment - the top one right now - can open someone's eyes to what cops really are. Stay in the fight!
What would be a reasonable outcome?
Firing all of the current PD staff seems like a great first step. Trick is, do you hire more in their place, and how do you pick them?
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#177Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, which completely ignores the difference between a person who has had this situation forced on them (A teacher or school administrator) and someone who has to choose to enter it. I think it might be quite a bit easier to confront a shooter when its obvious that doing nothing will result in your death. In this situation in particular I can't imagine how armed teachers would have made it any worse, but can certainl…
What if an armed teacher becomes the active shooter?
Or more likely: an angry teenage boy manages to get the gun off an armed teacher?
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#178Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you're not willing to put your life at risk, you should not be a first responder. Plain and simple.
Calculated risks, yes, like going in to the same building as an active shooter. They're not going to jump in front of a bullet to protect anyone else, though. The primary responsibility of any first responder -- police, fire, or EMS -- is to preserve their own lives.
> The primary responsibility of any first responder -- police, fire, or EMS -- is to preserve their own lives.
Over the lives of children, though? Putting your life in danger to save a random guy's life is heroic, but not expected. You're both adults, your safety isn't guaranteed, and it's not guaranteed that you'll be able to save him. But it's quite different when, instead of a random guy, it's a group of children.
I think that's the striking difference with Uvalde. It's really, really hard for me to imagine firefighters not rushing into a burning elementary school to get the kids to safety. Societally, we expect them to, and they know we expect them to.
Society also expects the same from police (laying down your life to save a child), but I'm not sure these police fully understood this societal expectation at the time of the incident, or else they would have acted differently.
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#179Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most people won't willingly die at work for any amount of money or accountability, and I don't blame them. These kinds of situations are outrageous because people want to believe in superheros, but they don't exist.
To protect and serve* If we could choose our police like our cell service, I'd pay for the police force that required military service or punished officers who did not act when they should
"protect and serve" is a motto that originated from a contest in a magazine. It's not a quote from a legal text.
We vote by wallet for our cell service and we vote by ballot for our police budgets. If you can only afford a house in a neighborhood with a Cricket Wireless tax base, then you get Cricket Wireless quality police.
Re: Texas police want uvalde bodycam footage suppressed
#180Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, it's expected that first responders may do things that are generally dangerous but they're not on kamikaze missions, it's completely normal for them to back out when they believe their own life is in danger. This is not any different for any first responder. Firefighters will run right back out of your house if they think it's required to save their own lives.
Saving a house is not the same thing as saving children. People risk or sacrifice themselves to save others with some frequency. Just a week before Ulvade, Dr. John Chang gave his life to tackle the shooter at his church in Orange County. Bravery exists. The belief in bravery is why we give special privileges to law enforcement. If we knew that police would never put themselves in harm's way to save children, we woul…
Bravery is why you give people medals, it makes no sense to give Police Officers privileges on the guess that maybe some of them will be brave.
In the Commonwealth a police officer would likely get a George Cross for extraordinary bravery (the Victoria Cross is the medal for extraordinary bravery in the face of the enemy and so accordingly it is awarded to the military). New Zealand police officer Stewart Guthrie was awarded (posthumously) in 1990 for confronting a gunman who'd killed a dozen people. Guthrie warned him, "Stop or I shoot" but the gunman shot him first.
But of course such awards are rare because such events are rare in Commonwealth countries.