Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance • Hacker News Board

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#391

Post by fddhjjj » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:20 PM UTC

RC_ITR wrote: post #380

fddhjjj wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cited three examples of financial engineering. Just to be clear you oppose mortgages, index funds, and ATM machines? I agree all of these or at least mortgages and index funds probably increase inequality especially given uneven access. As far as tangible goods — home ownership, retirement savings, and less time spent waiting at the bank.

You did not cite 3 examples of "financial engineering," you cited examples of "financial services." If crypto made it meaningfully easier to borrow capital to invest in utility assets, then I'd :heart: it too. (Mortgages) If crypto made it meaningfully easier to own equity capital in assets priced by utility, then I'd :heart: it too. (ETFS) If crypto made it meaningfully easier to transact for utility goods/services…

Can you provide a decision rule that distinguishes financial services from financial engineering?

I do not feel as confident as you seem that the group of things called “crypto” will not be useful for financial services.

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#392

Post by jmoak3 » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:21 PM UTC

gardenhedge wrote: post #386

jmoak3 wrote: post #20

You really cannot make this up. As usual crypto in practice is the opposite of decentralized because people. Will. Not. Run. Their. Servers. Moxie nailed it

Can you explain your comment a bit more? How does Binances' actions affect Bitcoin users who don't use Binance? And how do you arrive at your comment from this tweet? It doesn't say or imply how many people are using Binance. Futhermore, people who use Binance might also use a number of other options.

Sure thing - once again people were unable to move around their coins due to depending on a tool hosted on someone else's computer.

We've seen this many times, and it's a shame because letting another party manage your wallet or run a node for you defeats what I find attractive about bitcoin - the ability to be a peer in a decentralized peer-to-peer system.

If Binance went under in that time, people would have simply been screwed and lost their coins Mt.Gox-style.

Bitcoin only achieves it's decentralized promise if everyone hosts their own node and connects their wallet to it, and I'm personally not seeing that.

Why don't people run their own nodes and connect their wallets to their nodes exclusively? Because it's a pain, and nobody wants to host their own servers. They'll pick gmail over a mail server 99% of the time, and that is bad for the promise of bitcoin.

I would wager most/all cryptocurrencies have similar problems.

Moxie's web3 blog touched on this, and he nailed it.

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#393

Post by dubswithus » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:22 PM UTC

twawaaay wrote: post #384

dubswithus wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being happy about retail investors losing money is immoral. I hope you realize that. We have a lot of investments in the US that do nothing except force people to grind even harder. Look at the housing market. Why should housing be an investment when we absolutely need it to live and there are other investment vehicles that do just as well if not better?

> Being happy about retail investors losing money is immoral. I hope you realize that. No, it is not immoral. Retail "investors" should know better than "invest" into things with very shaky connection to reality where it is predicted value next Wednesday can be anywhere between zero and infinity. If they loose all your money on crypto that is purely their fault for "investing" into something which has no real value a…

So someone made a mistake? And the correct moral approach is to laugh and gloat?

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#394

Post by dubswithus » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

twawaaay wrote: post #387

eatsyourtacos wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>investing should be reserved for fronting cash to create some value (like buying stock to infuse capital into a corporation). As it is all crypto trading is purely speculation. Ok but let's be real- buying a stock is not really "creating value". The stock already exists. Company A has issued 100 shares. People are buying/selling it in the market.. no one is creating value there. Sure they may be arbitrarily driving…

The difference between speculation and investing isn't in that you want to earn money (everybody who buys stock want to increase their wealth). The reason is for why you pick this particular instrument. When I buy stock (or when Berkshire Hathaway does it) I buy into business that I hope has sound fundaments and is going to grow and create more value over time. I spend considerable effort trying to understand the sit…

Unless you have an equity position you haven't given the company anything for the shares when you buy Berkshire stock. You are essentially riding off of Buffett's success and making money without doing any work.

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#395

Post by colesantiago » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:24 PM UTC

px43 wrote: post #130

colesantiago wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if he told that he was also part of a cryptocurrency pump-and-dump scam as well? [0] After learning this I just lost respect for him. [0] https://amycastor.com/2021/04/07/signal-adopts-mobilecoin-a-...

Eh, look at the full timeline. When MobileCoin stuff was happening, when Moxie left Signal, and when he posted the Web3 criticisms. I've been using Bitcoin since 2009, and RedPhone/TxtSecure (Now called Signal) since 2010, and I still have zero clue how I'm even supposed to obtain MobileCoin. It's really a toy project at this point with no real adoption. Being able to send money via a secure chat network is a super i…

It does not matter. We know it is another scam coin, the fact is the crypto wallet is still in the Signal app. If it is a 'toy' project why didn't they remove it already after years of developing it in the first place?

The CEO of MobileCoin already admitted to using MobileCoin to fund Signal [0] and Moxie being the original CTO and paid advisor of the coin as mentioned in the article; also meaning he was a paid shill and part of the scam.

They already made the effort to create, shill, and then dump the tokens as soon as it was listed on the exchanges. The fact that Signal already accepted the tokens in the first place tells us that they were most certainly involved from the beginning and were part of the pump-and-dump scheme of the token.

Since MobileCoin was pre-allocated with them owning over 50% of the supply with that being the only supported token on Signal tells you that both Signal, Moxie and MobileCoin are all complicit in the scam.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26726246

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#396

Post by dgfitz » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:25 PM UTC

colesantiago wrote: post #351

dgfitz wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have me thoroughly confused. Are you now agreeing that crypto is a scam or no?

> Stripe and Moneygram have a business model that can exist outside of crypto...I won't go so far as to call them a scam company themselves. Contradicts: > All crypto is a scam. As you are trying to legitimise both of them of having a 'use-case' for their crypto offerings, holdings, etc which regardless of their business models and what they do as companies, it is still all a scam. If we agree that both Stripe and Mo…

No it doesn't. You're making a lot of mental leaps that I'm not able to follow. Those companies existed and were profitable BEFORE crypto. They don't NEED crypto. They're NOT CRYPTO COMPANIES.

I'm going to politely bow out of this debate, this isn't a productive use of time.

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#397

Post by winternett » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:26 PM UTC

lumost wrote: post #108

I recently watched some traditional cable and was shocked by the number of crypto ads bombarding viewers. I have to imagine that this market was goosed up by retail investors trading on coinbase and binance just as the e-betting market was. The only difference between crypto and e-betting is that everyone got to be a winner on the crypto markets for a while. As users lose out, and exchanges stop ad campaigns - how lo…

I was bored and had $100 lying around when BTC was at ~$39k so I dropped it in the machine and have watched the investment go all the way up to $150... Checking my investment today, it's around $50...

It's not that bad for risking tiny amounts of money if you're into losing cash.

If you're into losing vast amounts of money, I highly recommend dumping your life savings into BTC.

So many large companies have their hands in creating the BTC/Crypto cookie jar that it's guaranteed to fail, it's promoted in every setting because it is their drinking money generator. The factor (they didn't account for) that added a ton of volatility was that independent (whale) investors like Elon would jump in and screw up the entire works with tweets and strategic buying and dumps... Meanwhile, it's all the small people who saw the commercials and though it was legit that totally got hosed.

It's literally the rich and corporations robbing the poor, and on top of that in one of the most dire economic points in time ever... It's the pits of humanity I tell you.

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#398

Post by can16358p » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:27 PM UTC

1270018080 wrote: post #389

can16358p wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow. I just learned that all the toyally legit things I've done with Bitcoin are all illegal.

By rational, I mean the only time it is better than other methods. Buying legal things with bitcoin is slower, more expensive, dramatically more environmentally harmful, and dangerous to the consumer (no regulation). Truly no upside in real life applications unless you're trying to do illegal things.

You must be living in a perfect society with zero government/political corruption.

Good for you.

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#399

Post by can16358p » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:28 PM UTC

mmastrac wrote: post #302

can16358p wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many sanctions harm completely innocent people.

I think that there are missiles on the other side that are hurting people in more physical, fatal ways.

Of course. But fighting against the war shouldn't involve creating more harm.

Re: Temporary pause of Bitcoin withdrawals on Binance

#400

Post by the_gastropod » Mon, Jun 13, 2022, 6:36 PM UTC

can16358p wrote: post #295

1270018080 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as people want to buy illegal things online, I don't think bitcoin will go to zero. That has, and always will be, it's only rational use case.

Wow. I just learned that all the toyally legit things I've done with Bitcoin are all illegal.

You can use a helicopter to commute to work. It's just not a very rational thing for most people to do.