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EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

theregister.com

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Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#41

Post by wickedsight »

adrianN wrote: post #12
hkopr wrote: post #6

This is good from an environmental perspective, if (and that is a big if) the electricity is generated from clean sources. The societal implications are worrisome. Electric vehicles tend to track and surveil their "owners", fast charging is centralized and can be tracked as well. We have seen how far dystopian regimes like Trudeau's are willing to go. Instead of freezing the bank accounts using enabling laws, he coul…

What you say about electric cars is also true for new fossil cars.

Older ones too. If anything, newer cars are getting more secure in this, because if laws like GDPR. Many cars don't even really wipe data when you do a 'factory reset'. They just don't show it anymore, but if you get to the source data, you can still see it. Think about that next time you sell your car.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#43

Post by Al-Khwarizmi »

me_me_me wrote: post #17

Environment aside, this is not realistic with just aim to ban combustion engines. You need to fund groundbreaking infrastructural changes at national level. The last mile of logistics channels will not work with mythical electric trucks. Those does not exist because they make no sense. So how are we going to flow all those goods to markets?

Even though the headline says "vehicles", the ban is only for cars and vans. As far as I know, it doesn't affect trucks (or buses, tractors, etc.)

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#44

Post by adrianN »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #16
adrianN wrote: post #3

Better than nothing, but the date is a bit far away if we want carbon neutrality before (or even around) 2050. Cars have fairly long service times. Hopefully the market will phase out ICEs earlier than that except for niche uses.

There may be a faster fall-off than you'd think, because of feedback effects. Same way film cameras stopped being popular and then you couldn't get the films, or get them developed, so they got more unpopular, repeat until extinct. If fuel stations start closing down and you can't get the parts, it won't matter if fuel cars have decades of good service life ahead.

That is likely true for rich countries, but typically old cars get shipped to poorer countries where they continue to run for another decade or so. The infrastructure there will see good use for a while longer.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#45

Post by arez »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #32
ChemSpider wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be living under a rock: Coordinate foreign affairs? => Yes (e. g. Russia sanctions) Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country?

Coordinate foreign affairs? => Yes (e. g. Russia sanctions) US led and coordinated Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex Famously ineffective in 2015. Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country? The near abroad of the EU is not the EU, they are its neighbouring states.

in 2015 it was agreed to let people in. Luckily we don't have gates that we open and close, but the countries in the EU agreed that this was a humanitarian crisis and decided to take some amounts of foreigners in.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#46

Post by Youden »

hkopr wrote: post #6

This is good from an environmental perspective, if (and that is a big if) the electricity is generated from clean sources. The societal implications are worrisome. Electric vehicles tend to track and surveil their "owners", fast charging is centralized and can be tracked as well. We have seen how far dystopian regimes like Trudeau's are willing to go. Instead of freezing the bank accounts using enabling laws, he coul…

I don't know what things are like in the US or Canada but I'm a privacy-conscious European EV owner and realistically don't feel that I've been forced to make any compromises.

The car's connected features like remote unlocking are completely optional and easy to live without.

Fast charging data, as far as I can tell, are only centralized within my payment provider, similar to how it would be if I were to use a debit/credit card to buy fuel.

I trust the EU and my country's government not to introduce dystopian measures like mandatory kill switches.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#47

Post by zbrozek »

bambax wrote: post #34
JulianMorrison wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There may be a faster fall-off than you'd think, because of feedback effects. Same way film cameras stopped being popular and then you couldn't get the films, or get them developed, so they got more unpopular, repeat until extinct. If fuel stations start closing down and you can't get the parts, it won't matter if fuel cars have decades of good service life ahead.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking too. It's a vicious circle (or maybe a virtuous one?) but once fuel stations start closing in droves it will become very impractical to own a petrol car.

That cycle will undoubtedly be slower for vehicles than cameras. Much larger, much more expensive population, covering a broader range of niche cases. I think very highly of my EV, but I'm not under the illusion that all fossil fueled vehicles will evaporate quickly. Certainly I expect another 10-15 years out of my 22-year-old truck.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#48

Post by toyg »

devoutsalsa wrote: post #4

I wonder how realistic that is. That’s a huge shift to make in only 13 years. I guess we’ll see!

It isn't. In about 5-10 years we will see a big push to delay that deadline, or even quietly shelve it. The industrial sector in particular is nowhere near switching, and they are critical - by and large, distribution relies on rubber, and that rubber is not going to be electric in 10 years time.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#49

Post by ranguna »

LAC-Tech wrote: post #32
ChemSpider wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must be living under a rock: Coordinate foreign affairs? => Yes (e. g. Russia sanctions) Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country?

Coordinate foreign affairs? => Yes (e. g. Russia sanctions) US led and coordinated Able to police external borders? => Yes, Frontex Famously ineffective in 2015. Credible military deterrence in its near abroad? => When was the last time anyone attacked an EU country? The near abroad of the EU is not the EU, they are its neighbouring states.

> US led and coordinated

US led US sanctions, not all sanctions are US sanctions.

> The near abroad of the EU is not the EU, they are its neighbouring states.

They are indeed EU neighbour states, but they are not EU member states.

Re: EU vote to ban all sales of combustion engine vehicles by 2035

#50

Post by toyg »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #39
amelius wrote: post #24

Bad news for Ferrari et al.

I doubt it. Most likely the EU will have concessions in place to protect the local high-value, small volume, performance & luxury halo-brands like Ferrari, Lambo, Bugatti, Pagani, etc. A lot of their multi millionaire customers value that these cars have several moving parts that go bang on dead dinosaur juice, causing them to go vroom when you hit the gas pedal while making loud crackling and popping sounds from the…

I hope that will also means the motorcycle sector. It's a niche, it's already very efficient, and despite efforts the electric versions are nowhere near feature parity.
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