Looking at google maps, there's a ferry about 30 mile ride on the water. I don't know the route they're proposing, but maybe 60 miles over mountains. Ugh. The ambulance isn't going to be going 60 over washboard roads. The good people of Alaska can do whatever they want, but if the concern is medical emergencies, they should seriously consider keeping a plane at the airport, illuminate the airport, and make sure the r…
Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
161–170 of 187 posts
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes because we realise the mistakes
Then we should be leading by example. I know there's a lot more I could be doing to preserve and restore ecosystems local to me before I've any right to demand the same of folks thousands of miles away.
I bought 40 acres adjacent to national forest service land and I keep about 38 acres of it wild. I try to improve the forest and provide good habitat, and I've been rewarded with a lot of wildlife.
I've said in another comment, I'm an hour from a hospital.
I am both doing a lot for my local ecosystems, and also demanding that a national forest owned by the national government thousands of miles away be preserved as wild.
You can change the phrasing to attack the idea, but that's my idea as I intend it.
The people there can serve their own interests just fine. I think a whole lot of us can help keep wild places wild, and that's equally important as you working locally.
Do we even know what the locals think, by the way? Like actual normal people who live there? I would bet it's not a one-sided issue.
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#163Earlier quoted context omitted.
> entire villages would be eliminated Entire towns have been relocated for the greater good. Some examples are to build dams and reservoirs. Butler, Tennessee. American Falls, Idaho. Grand Coulee Dam forced the relocation of 3000 people. So many others, like these: https://www.uncharted101.com/the-submerged-towns-of-america/
> Some examples are to build dams and reservoirs. Yeah, dams and reservoirs that obliterated not just those towns but any and all surrounding habitats - while also in many cases interfering with fish stocks/migration. "Greater good" indeed. Maybe we should be tearing down those dams before quibbling over a gravel road.
They also created new habitats.
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
There’s tons of people who want those “Texas based petro behemoths” to “drill new holes” for the exact same reasons folks want San Francisco based ad behemoths to build offices in their city.
And there's "tons" that don't, aren't there? So... maybe we should do this democratically and let the elected government decide what happens with federal land and not resort to this kind of "who matters more" nonsense?
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#165Read Carter's amicus brief https://www.cartercenter.org/resources/pdfs/amicus-brief-jim... Carter's argument: Regardless of any facts surrounding the purpose of a road, the 1980 ANILCA did not authorise (Trump's) Secretary of the Interior to review and permit development in refuges on an ad-hoc basis, via section 2192(h)(1) land exchanges. A majority of a three-member panel of the Court of Appeals got it wrong. The C…
Summary
https://leftcoast.mofo.com/topics/This-Week-at-The-Ninth-Mar...
https://eelp.law.harvard.edu/2021/02/the-izembek-refuge-road...
2019 District Court of Alaska opinion
https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/programs/public_lands/pd...
Secretary Zinke's 2018 Land Swap Set Aside for APA Violation
https://casetext.com/case/friends-of-alaska-natl-wildlife-re...
Secretary Bernhardt's 2019 Land Swap Set Aside for APA Violation
https://casetext.com/case/friends-of-alaska-natl-wildlife-re...
DOJ's Opening Brief on Appeal
https://fingfx.thomsonreuters.com/gfx/legaldocs/klvykeqnqvg/...
9th Circuit Decision (See Justice Wardlaw's dissent)
https://casetext.com/case/friends-of-alaska-national-wildlif...
Friends of ANWR Petition for Rehearing En Banc
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1lwQRwznwLpoS6geNpPyP5lmiQHJ...
Administrative and Natural Resources Law Professors Amicus Brief
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yFsg0bWStMhWLsBBt_cff0CwHds...
Former Secretary Babbitt and former Interior Solicitor Leshy Amicus Brief
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5c2a3500f793923866cf1...
Does anyone remember Carter recommending coal as an environmenally friendly strategy during the 70's energy crisis. And the late Senator Tsongas (RIP) opposing Carter on domestic oil strategies. Eventually they worked together on ANILCA.
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#166Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quoted post unavailable.
I came here to say exactly the same thing. Development always begets more development. The rural wilderness that I grew up in is completely unrecognizable today. Acres and acres of essentially untouched forest now replaced with human housing. Creeks have dried up and animal life is a shadow of what it used to be. We used to have otters, beavers, deer, and more but they're long gone now. That transformation started wi…
Now we have the technology to build to live densely and in comfort, and we also see what a disaster we generally are to the environment. I wish we slowly started to consider it ethically not OK to want to move to untouched areas and demand them to be developed and infrastructure erected.
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
Then we should be leading by example. I know there's a lot more I could be doing to preserve and restore ecosystems local to me before I've any right to demand the same of folks thousands of miles away.
I'm kind of the guy you're directing this comment at, I think. I bought 40 acres adjacent to national forest service land and I keep about 38 acres of it wild. I try to improve the forest and provide good habitat, and I've been rewarded with a lot of wildlife. I've said in another comment, I'm an hour from a hospital. I am both doing a lot for my local ecosystems, and also demanding that a national forest owned by th…
I'm directing it at myself as much as anyone else. Like yeah, it's shitty that a gravel road could very well spiral into further ecological destruction and sprawl. It's also shitty to assume that it'll do so and use that assumption to actively hinder the quality of life for a community - especially when in all likelihood the vast majority of people wanting to impose such a hindrance do so from the comfort of lifestyles built upon far greater degrees of ecological destruction. It's great that you're making a positive difference (and if I had the funds to buy 40 acres of land I'd be thrilled to do something similar), but among those condemning a gravel road in a national forest, you're almost certainly the exception, not the rule - and even if I was such an exception, it still wouldn't be my place to judge them for that.
Put differently:
> Do we even know what the locals think, by the way? Like actual normal people who live there? I would bet it's not a one-sided issue.
No. We don't. That's exactly my point. Humans need to choose to be good stewards of the world they inherited. We lack the context, the moral high ground, and the ability to make that choice on anyone else's behalf.
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes, but Businesses are very clearly not the antecedent of the "they" you used upthread to reference "Alaskans". You can't make a nativist argument about the rights of the local population and then try to extend that to a Texas-based petro-behemoth wanting to drill new holes.
There’s tons of people who want those “Texas based petro behemoths” to “drill new holes” for the exact same reasons folks want San Francisco based ad behemoths to build offices in their city.
I got to see this first hand during the Barnette Shale gas drilling boom in the mid-2000s. As Texas, particularly the DFW area was very pro-oil&gas, many people were very much in favor of fracking and the possibilities it opened up.
Many of those people stopped being in favor once actual wells appeared in their neighborhoods. At one point I could see five different wells from the second floor of my suburban home. Their noise was audible all the time, and our roads became clogged with heavy trucks delivering liquids and materials necessary for the fracking process. Oh, our roads got destroyed rapidly from those trucks as well.
The few landowners who got lucrative mineral lease deals were very happy, but "the people" living all around were definitely not happy. So a small few individuals profited well, a few oil and gas companies profited very well, and the general population suffered.
That was even before the earthquakes started.
Keep in mind also that "the people" are generally speaking rather like sheep -- not stupid necessarily, but given to following the herd. "Everybody knows" that Texas is an oil state, so it's only natural that you will be in favor of the industry your state is famous for. To go against that means you no longer fit with your neighbors, colleagues, church members, sometimes even your family (if you're from Texas you probably have a cousin who works in the industry) etc.
However, after negative outcomes appear too often or too clearly, the concept of "the people" fractures. I can't speak for the SF folks, but I would bet that there are quite some strong differences of opinion amongst them, just as there are people living in nature who are very opposed to development around them.
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#169Earlier quoted context omitted.
They would also need to seriously improve the runway to land in extreme wind conditions not just add ILS equipment. I don’t know what exactly is needed, but a single short gravel runway is a long way from being sufficient. Next is the question of maintenance, if you actually want to save an hour the runway would need to be kept clear 24/7 which is expensive. Alternatively, they can start clearing the runway after the…
spend a million dollars teaching the five folks on the volunteer fire department how to fly a helicopter. Spend another million on a helicopter. Spend another million upgrading the airport. Quick trip to cold bay, then off to Anchorage. I mean, like, peoples lives are at stake. Speed wins every single time. the longer someone goes without treatment, the less chance they have at survival. And that's the root question…
Re: Jimmy Carter asks court to defend Alaska’s ‘unrivaled wilderness’
#170Atrocious to me that anybody would want to block that road. A mine? Sure. Logging? Yup. Oil exploration? Yeah. A gravel road to an airport in Alaska? Come on. I haven't lived in Rural Alaska in 20 years but I was born and raised in a fishing village. People in the lower 48 have no understanding of the vastness of Alaska and how small a concession this really is. These specious environmental lawsuits are why no infras…
Quoted post unavailable.