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I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

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Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#121

Post by andyjohnson0 »

blip54321 wrote: post #33
jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

I think most of us value our freedom more. Most people don't think of it in terms of freedom, but freedom it is. With proprietary software: - You don't know when it will disappear or be discontinued. Even your paid-for existing version stops working when the activation servers go down. - You might be forced into an "upgrade" which breaks something you rely on - That's not to mention issues like being able to fix bugs…

> You don't know when it will disappear or be discontinued.

I've been using Visual Studio pretty much every working day for over twenty years. I have zero worries that is will disappear any time soon. I still think its the best IDE out there, and I've never felt that my freedom was being compromised by using it.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#122

Post by imwillofficial »

Shared404 wrote: post #79
cdrini wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. - Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprietary software doesn't force updates either. - Being able to fix your own bugs is…

> discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. But if I want to use Atom I can fork it, or keep the source around. It doesn't go away from my environment until _I_ say it does. And Photoshop has become more and more user hostile over time. > Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprie…

“It is impossible for libre software to force updates”

This isn’t even close to being true

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#123

Post by drclau »

jefftime wrote: post #65
blip54321 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us value our freedom more. Most people don't think of it in terms of freedom, but freedom it is. With proprietary software: - You don't know when it will disappear or be discontinued. Even your paid-for existing version stops working when the activation servers go down. - You might be forced into an "upgrade" which breaks something you rely on - That's not to mention issues like being able to fix bugs…

To piggyback off this, another reason that I think software freedom is valuable is community support. Things like LSPs, syntax highlighters, and that sort of support doesn't have to wait on JetBrains to integrate it into their IDE. I think there is real value to the community being able to hack on a tool and not being at the whim of a single developer's priorities

You can write and publish your own plugins for JetBrains IDEs.

https://plugins.jetbrains.com/

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#124

Post by jonnycomputer »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

I'm a fan of Jetbrains IDEs (despite having some complaints), and use them at work regularly (and because I work in academia, I get the enterprise version free of cost). But I think of Emacs as a life-long companion-tool, something that I'll be able to use, how I like it, until I die, on pretty much any operating system, and on pretty much any hardware.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#125

Post by ekidd »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

> What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster.

The first time I paid for a fancy IDE, it ran on an Apple IIgs in the late 80s. It was the first of many. Unfortunately, commerical IDEs and editors go out of business constantly. The rare survivors, like BBEdit, tend to be limited to a single OS.

Around 1997, I figured out what I want out of an editor:

- Supports every language and text file format I'll need.

- Runs on every desktop OS.

- Customizable, and scriptable using an industry-standard language.

- Will still be around in 20 years.

Emacs met these requirements, and I used it for over 20 years. A few years ago, I switched to VS Code.

I don't buy commercial editors because they don't provide the key features I want. And I don't trust them to stick around.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#126

Post by netr0ute »

imwillofficial wrote: post #122
Shared404 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. But if I want to use Atom I can fork it, or keep the source around. It doesn't go away from my environment until _I_ say it does. And Photoshop has become more and more user hostile over time. > Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprie…

“It is impossible for libre software to force updates” This isn’t even close to being true

Any evidence to back that up?

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#127

Post by saghm »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

> I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way.

I'm not sure if you mean this literally, but I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. I mentioned this the other day here [1], but for whatever reason, I've been completely unable to get Intellij to properly allow me to work on a remote codebase for my job. Despite my company giving me access to the Ultimate edition, the 2021 version of Intellij just flat out refused to connect when I tried to use the ssh plugin, and the 2022 edition's beta of a new ssh feature worked for about a week before somehow getting into a state where it would reconnect every 5 seconds or so and scroll me to the top of whatever file I was trying to edit. I'm sure there are ways to get it to work, but given that VS Code just worked the first time I set it up and never really got in my way, I have no motivation to spend more than a few minutes trying to get Intellij working before just giving up and going back to VS Code.

I think if you see behavior that seems so obviously "wrong" to you, it's worth giving people the benefit of the doubt and actually trying to see _why_ people do things that way before just dismissing them as irrational. I wouldn't be surprised if you've actually talked to people who might have experiences like this that could explain the discrepancy, but if you start the conversation so dismissively, most people aren't going to bother trying to share their experiences with you.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31669461

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#128

Post by CoastalCoder »

kklimonda wrote: post #31
CoastalCoder wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand that reasoning. Wouldn't an editor ecosystem based on Codium be as open-source as Emacs' and Vim's? Are you referring to some difference in their specific licenses?

My argument, based on this thread alone, would be that Codium will always be... held back by its roots in open core project, with some amazing features (like remote editing) or plugins being unavailable. Codium developers do not "own" their core platform (they can't really fork it without breaking plugins), and they don't have much (if any) say in the future direction of it. Given that it's not unreasonable to think…

Thanks for explaining that. I hadn't considered the moat effect caused by defaulting to a plugin store that allows closed-source packages.

That said, it sounds like people are maintaining an equivalent store for Codium [0], and are populating it with most of the packages found in Microsoft's repo. I'd think addresses most of the concerns about that particular form of moating.

> with some amazing features (like remote editing) or plugins being unavailable

The remote-editing package is definitely a sticking point for me. Is there some reason to believe that an open-source equivalent is out of reach?

I'm speaking from a place of ignorance on this, but I'd expect someone out there to want to do the work of writing that OSS package. Particularly if they preferred Codium over Vim/Emacs for other reasons.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#129

Post by NaN1352 »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

> For individual use, most of them are Except as a developer you need one app, then another, and another… soon enough you’ll be paying 10 x 50$/year.

And paying a sub for software is repugnant to me. I bought FontAwesome 5 while it was in KickStarter, it’s no longer updated (it’s now version 6), but at least I can still fully use the thousands of icons I paid for.

tldr: way too damn expensive.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#130

Post by fartcannon »

mangamadaiyan wrote: post #18
fartcannon wrote: post #15

Luckily, contrary to what the Microsoft hoard will tell you, there are countless respectful alternatives that were around before and will be around long after Microsoft turns it into some kind of pay to win thing with achievements.

Nitpick: s/hoard/horde/g

Merci beaucoup
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