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I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

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Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#101

Post by pphysch »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

> What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind.

How long have you worked in software, or any industry? "Pay for this thing that will make your job easier" is the Big Lie of software. ~Half of the time it becomes "makes your job harder" (often imperceptibly without hindsight!) because the product is primarily designed to lock-in paying enterprise customers and only secondarily to provide them with a productivity-boosting service.

It is rational for people working in the industry to be skeptical of such claims.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#102

Post by garbanz0 »

buf wrote: post #16

I started using vim 13 years ago. Editors come. Editors go. Vim remains.

90% of the time, I'm writing code that vim wouldn't help with, and that 10% never seems to make up for the investment cost of learning it, especially because I'd probably forget the commands between uses. However I do respect vim users.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#103

Post by tharne »

joshstrange wrote: post #84
tharne wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. We're not resistant to paying, we're resistant to rent-seeking. I would, and have, happily buy a piece of software I use regularly. What I will not do is a pay a monthly fee…

JetBrains products have a perpetual fallback license so you absolutely can pay up front and then never pay again if you are ok being on an older version of the software. Maybe you are the exception but I find that 99.99% of the people who use the "it's open source so I can modify it" argument never so much as look at the code let alone consider making modifications. JetBrains products have an open-core (IntelliJ [0])…

> Lastly you say "None of these things are a big ask.", you just want the world on a silver platter for no cost, sorry but that is a big ask,

Silver platter? Lol. Each of these things would require *less* effort on the part of software companies, not more.

Upfront payment? It's easier to charge once than to set up recurring bill pay.

Open source? You already have the code, just let me see it.

Tracking? Just don't track me. Actually requires the company and it's devs to write less code not more. Companies managed to successfully sell software for many years without tracking and spying on their users

> Providing an excellent product with constant updates is not "rent-seeking"

It is when the updates are things I and others do not want, or need, and did not ask for. I have an old computer running 15 year-old version of MS Office. Not once have I have ever had need for one of the newer features for Office that MS has rolled out in the last decade and a half. That might not be true for everyone, but it's true for me and many others.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#104

Post by bityard »

wooque wrote: post #87

I went backwards, from VS Codium to VS Code, because VS Codium does not support all extensions, like PyLance or Remote - SSH/containers. I like freedom, but I like getting things done more.

I just did the same thing literally yesterday for the same reason. Disabled telemetry and hoping for the best.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#105

Post by nlitened »

tharne wrote: post #75
jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

> What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. We're not resistant to paying, we're resistant to rent-seeking. I would, and have, happily buy a piece of software I use regularly. What I will not do is a pay a monthly fee…

> We're not resistant to paying, we're resistant to rent-seeking.

Yet most employers who can afford to pay developers their high salaries are rent seekers. That’s hypocrisy right there.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#106

Post by [deleted] »

jmyeet wrote: post #20

What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. Take the Jetbrains IDEs. I don't mean to offend any VSC fans out there but the Jetbrains IDEs are simply better and more mature in every single way. For individual use, most of…

[deleted]

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#107

Post by tharne »

cdrini wrote: post #64
blip54321 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us value our freedom more. Most people don't think of it in terms of freedom, but freedom it is. With proprietary software: - You don't know when it will disappear or be discontinued. Even your paid-for existing version stops working when the activation servers go down. - You might be forced into an "upgrade" which breaks something you rely on - That's not to mention issues like being able to fix bugs…

Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. - Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprietary software doesn't force updates either. - Being able to fix your own bugs is…

> Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software.

Except I can still use discontinued open source software like Atom.

Try installing an older version of an app on an old iPhone. The app store won't let you. You might be able to jailbreak the phone and track down an older version of the app, but it's a pain and Apple makes it as difficult as they can for you instead of just letting you download the version you want from their store.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#108

Post by elashri »

shaan7 wrote: post #62
premun wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree but also - a controversial opinion - I am pretty sure Microsoft collects the kind of telemetry to learn about user behavior and improve the IDE, and not to collect private information for some kind of other gain. I am sure that whoever develops Codium will eventually get into a dead-end at some point because they won't have any telemetry connected to the product usage. Other piece is that Codium might inheren…

I am really curious but do not have the time to check this myself: is the vscode telemetry part of the open core bit? The reason I ask this is because I agree with your points and I usually allow telemetry for FOSS programs (for example [1]). If the telemetry code is open and people can verify that there isn't any identifiable data that is being collected, I don't see any issue with leaving it on in vscode too. [1] h…

Some of the telemetry is not added until when later when VSCode get bundled with it and some proprietary stuff and signed for distribution. This is where VSCodium do the stuff. they take the same source code, apply some patches and build the program with open-vsx open source marketplace and they call it a day.

All of this actually happens and piped using github action found on the repository. You can have a look there.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#109

Post by prmoustache »

cdrini wrote: post #64
blip54321 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of us value our freedom more. Most people don't think of it in terms of freedom, but freedom it is. With proprietary software: - You don't know when it will disappear or be discontinued. Even your paid-for existing version stops working when the activation servers go down. - You might be forced into an "upgrade" which breaks something you rely on - That's not to mention issues like being able to fix bugs…

Most of your points also apply to open source software, and aren't strict requirements for proprietary software. - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time. - Audacity's 3.0 update removed a feature I relied on. I wasn't forced to update to it, sure, but proprietary software doesn't force updates either. - Being able to fix your own bugs is…

> - discontinued: Atom just got discontinued. It's open source. Photoshop on the other hand has withstood the test of time.

If you like Atom and still want to use it, you can fix potential bugs yourself and make it evolve, you can't with a proprietary one. You can also fork if project take a different direction that you would like. When gnome3 came up, some people who preferred the gnome2 desktop metaphor started mate and cinnamon, the former forking gnome 2 to port it to gtk-3 while the later forked gnome3 to adapt it to work more like gnome2.

> - you'll never have a guarantee that a tool you invest time in or money in will be the leading tool in five years.

Nobody has to use the leading tool. My preferred IDE is neovim which is kind of a niche project. While they are the leaders there is no reason for me to use Visual Studio or Visual Studio Code if I am not comfortable on them.

Re: I’m switching from VS Code to VS Codium

#110

Post by [deleted] »

nlitened wrote: post #105
tharne wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I find truly bizarre is how many software engineers, who are aware of how much they earn and how long it really takes to make software, are so resistant to paying anything for tools that make their job easier and faster. It blows my mind. We're not resistant to paying, we're resistant to rent-seeking. I would, and have, happily buy a piece of software I use regularly. What I will not do is a pay a monthly fee…

> We're not resistant to paying, we're resistant to rent-seeking. Yet most employers who can afford to pay developers their high salaries are rent seekers. That’s hypocrisy right there.

[deleted]
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