This oppressiveness is not inherent to computers, it's inherent to the people and institutions making use of them. The examples in the article say it all: government bureaucracies, beverage dispensers. They own the computers and impose their own rules on us, rules like deadlines and brand checking. We don't want these rules but they impose it on us all the same. Computers are neutral technology. It's just that we are…
Computers are fine but total computerisation of human society may not be so. That's actually what the article should have explored in my opinion. Computers are neither ruthless nor kind, its controllers, humans, are. So the question then becomes, who controls them and how sophisticated they (the computers) become, and how much they infiltrate our world. A simple thought... should everything that can theoretically be…
Computers are an oppressive technology
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Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
tools are not neutral: they favor that which they make easier
As a thought experiment why not go to the extreme and see if the "just a tool, it's about what people make with it"-point would hold there. " Gas chambers are just a tool" But a tool that has very few uses besides large scale genocide. So of course it would be ridiculous to argue the gaschambers are just a tool, because they are (A) the result of an engineering project that tried to kill as many people as possible in…
Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#63Earlier quoted context omitted.
tools are not neutral: they favor that which they make easier
Tools define a relationship with the entity being tooled, so you can learn a lot about the goals and values of the transactions by looking at the kinds of relationships that are/aren't implied. You can't feed people with an AR-15. The metaphors that define computing are all about abstraction, automation without human input, predictability, and control. Abstraction tends to lossy and context-insensitive, which is why…
A human loan manager, given only a credit score, will approve the loan based on only the credit score. The problem isn't human vs machine, it's context-awareness and context-sensitivity vs a lack of one or both.
All large systems, human or machine, tend to be implemented using abstractions. Layers of context-stripping abstractions were a part of buerocracy far before machines took it over. If a loan request form doesn't have an "if I don't get this loan my family will literally starve to death" box that you can check, the evaluator will not know about that context couldn't possibly act based on it. The form can be digital or paper and the evaluator can be a program or a human - it doesn't change a thing.
Similarly, context-sensitivity (the willingness to let the context sway your decision) was strictly limited even back in the day when decision makers were close enough to the source to be aware of the context. A bank clerk had to stick to the rules and couldn't just decide to give a loan to someone that didn't qualify under them. If they did, they'd be risking losing their job or worse, so they didn't. This discretion was only given to the people in charge - and that hasn't changed with computers. A person in a high enough position can override what the computer says, just as easily as they can override a lower clerk's decision.
Yes, making machines context-aware takes some effort, and making them context-sensitive takes even more effort. But even if machines magically came with both, their operators would do the best to get rod of them, just like they did with their employees. From their point of view, empathy is inefficiency. And that's the real problem.
Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#64Right conclusion, wrong rationale. The oppressiveness of computers comes from the fact that they can only exist through mass production techniques. Much of the cost-efficiency of computing comes from operating fabs at ever increasing economies of scale. Our current set of devices couldn’t exist without hundreds of millions of people coming together to work on the common purpose of producing those devices and their su…
These design and manufacturing decisions are made by a very small number of people. Consumers buy the items that are successfully marketed to them by advertisers, not because they en masse collectively requested something. This is an oligarchy, not a democracy.
Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#65Various appeals to emotion and analogies that ultimately provide little to nothing of value. Maybe it is a good article about why we build human-operated escape hatches and failsafes in software and hardware. When was the last time you saw train doors ruthlessly separate children from their parents ? Have you seen anyone lose a limb to that ruthless guillotine? No. Machines do what they are programmed or built to do.…
It is also worth noting that those examples have a positive element as well. Train operators are too far from the doors to know when it is safe to depart. The closing of the train door ensures everyone is safely inside before the train can depart. Having a human operator who uses discretion at each door would only create a new set of problems, namely of train delays causing the entire system to grind to a halt (at best) and safety issues (at worse).
Likewise for the food dispenser guillotine. While the case described sounds poorly designed, the general idea behind those doors is to prevent thieves from leeching upon unsupervised vending machines. One may argue that a human could use discretion for when a person is truly starving. On the other hand, that after hours supply of junk food wouldn't exist without vending machines since the labour involved would make it too expensive. It is also worth noting that a real human would rarely hand out food that is not their food to give away.
As a side note: I also detest the use of the term jobsworth to describe something the author doesn't agree with. More often than not, those rules exist for a reason. While preventing the submission of a form a second late is not one of them, encouraging the submission of the form in a timely manner is. There are many people behind the scenes who need to get their job done for the benefit of those who filled out those forms in a timely manner.
Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#66Right conclusion, wrong rationale. The oppressiveness of computers comes from the fact that they can only exist through mass production techniques. Much of the cost-efficiency of computing comes from operating fabs at ever increasing economies of scale. Our current set of devices couldn’t exist without hundreds of millions of people coming together to work on the common purpose of producing those devices and their su…
I argue that most people couldn’t afford a premium phone with a headphone jack if mass customization was the dominant industrial paradigm and basically no one could afford it if full customization was the way we went.
Cars, appliances, electronics, books, and clothing have become wildly cheaper (and therefore more accessible) because of society’s mass adoption of industrial production.
It’s not that we couldn’t revert to local, craft-based production; it’s that the relative inefficiency would make that unattractive to the vast majority of people.
Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#67The author eventually contemplates the "good" aspects of "machine ruthlessness" (e.g. "cryproanarchist technologies"), but ultimately warns against the "oppressive" potential inherent in all machines. The main problem with this argument IMO is that it equates oppression with the kind of unwavering ruthlessness that is the way of the machines: they will do as they are programmed - there are no exceptions (unless such…
> I.e. everyone is treated equally, which is an ideal under the rule of law Sure it's branded as an ideal in our profoundly corrupt societies. But would "equal treatment" bring equality? In this system, we are all free to own a castle or to work 12h/day in the mines from the age of 8. But however impartial the treatment of individuals the system is still meant for profound inequality and exploitation. Of course i agr…
I disagree that "the system" is "meant" for anything - the system is not a monolith even if certain parts of the machinery work well together, it is rarely a question of design, usually a mishmash of various historical phenomena and trends that happen to exist simultaneously.
I think my plea for "a little bit of this and a little bit of that" perhaps got somewhat muted in my comment, placed at the very end like it was. So I agree that it would be oppressive to always treat everyone equal, the billionaire as well as the double working lone mom, and that machines many time is a prime tool for oppression and deflecting responsibility.
But it would be problematic to start chipping away at the ideal of everyone's equality under the law in order to rectify such. This ideal is what stands between institutions like freedom, democracy and human rights on the one hand and corrupt states on the other, where the law is applied differently depending on who is on trial, and where the letter and intent of the law is flaunted in favor of pure (real) oppression.
The problem really seems to be discerning where to apply "a little bit of this" vs where to apply "a little bit of that", a project that doesn't lend itself well to sweeping generalizations.
Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#68Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree. I think the oppressiveness will come from software. Who writes it, and what values does the software reflect? Does it reflect yours? The governance structure wants to code their rules into a machine that will execute those rules without being able to apply human discernment. Humans are meant to be out of the loop - their rules and diktats are meant to be all we need. Ai + robotics has brought this possibilit…
This is exactly why free software was invented, which respects its users: https://www.fsf.org/blogs/rms/why-free-software-is-more-impo... .
The point of the article boils down to something like this:
Pre-AI computers are very literal and show no judgement or discernment in their rule-following. They are inevitably used to implement complex systems against which users have little recourse, and to implement complex systems whose behaviours and failures can be blamed on computers rather than on the people responsible. These fundamental problems will persist no matter the progress made in AI.
Free Software is intended to stop the user being oppressed by their own computers. The article's point is about other people's computers being used to serve their interests over yours, in ways that may be detrimental to the user compared to a more 'manual' system.
Consider the train door example from the article. Suppose that code were Free Software. This might benefit whoever owns and runs the train, but wouldn't benefit the user (of the train) at all.
Re: Computers are an oppressive technology
#70People may decide that the ease a tool gives some task is a display of its purpose or its utility, but this matters and is true only to the humans involved. To another group of humans, this would be false. For example, a builder may find a large dually pickup truck perfect for hauling finished lumber in the USA, but a builder in Europe may find the same truck useless as it cannot make it down the streets to a build site.
Utility, purpose, meaning, and value are assigned by people and not inherent to any given thing.