Enjoyed the post. Do programmers really not know who Peter Drucker is?
Really.
Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
61–70 of 274 posts
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#62Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps taken in context one might have read it as "if you describe your sole value as the ability to write code, someone is already working on a way to get you fired".
I understand the context. Patrick's formulation is so commonplace as to be cliche. Code is our medium of expression. There's nothing inaccurate or ignominious about describing ourselves as programmers. To say that the code exists to solve problems is to flirt with tautology.
You still miss the point, though. Patrick isn't saying that calling yourself a programmer is inaccurate or ignominious. He's saying that it's not going to have a desirable effect on the listener. He's saying you should talk about the value you create, rather than the effort you expend.
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#63On the not calling yourself a programmer part: It may be a local thing, but the term engineer was usurped by government to essentially refer to someone who does things by the book. As such, engineer has come to mean someone who has trouble seeing the bigger picture and won't break some rules to deliver something amazing. Obviously that is not true of many engineers, but the damage to the term is already done (again,…
It's a local thing.
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#64"Want to get trained on Ruby at a .NET shop? Implement a one-off project in Ruby. Bam, you are now a professional Ruby programmer — you coded Ruby and you took money for it. (You laugh? I did this at a Java shop. The one-off Ruby project made the company $30,000. My boss was, predictably, quite happy and never even asked what produced the deliverable.)" Unless an employee actually gets permission to do this, this mak…
Assuming he had a green light on the project itself, and it creates value, I don't see why that would be selfish.
Maintenance takes a lot more time than the initial implementation. By using a language nobody else knows, you increase the cost for 90% of the project's lifetime to decrease the cost of the initial 10%.
It's selfish if the numbers are such that maintenance ends up costing more than you saved by using your favorite language for the initial implementation. That depends on a lot of things: your co-workers' experience, your coding style, documentation for the language/libraries used that your co-workers aren't familiar with, etc.
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#65I think Patrick is missing a niche segment of Hackers who have been making a lot of money in last few years.They are the independent Mobile App Developer(iOS/Android) If you choose this path then you dont even have to start a company,all you need to do is make awesome apps.It might be a little hard to start but in a year you should be making good enough money to go independent and then sky is the limit.It is not only…
I'd be interested to see the stats on people making apps on HN vs people actually making a lot of money on them
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#66Does anyone else think that this article is in poor form? On the perils of describing yourself as a programmer: If you're hiring someone to provide a specific skill set (programmer) you want them to be good at programming. Would you hire an accountant if they didn't know accounting? Should lawyers not describe themselves as lawyers? Doctors as doctors? On the perils of selling yourself as an expert in a certain techn…
You're letting other people determine your worth using their limited domain vocabulary and their suboptimal pattern matching abilities. A .NET programmer is a highly paid commodity, but a commodity all the same. A high-tech value creator who thinks and talks in terms of profit drivers and cost sinks is not going to ever be a commodity. Rather than striving to be the top of your class (e.g. Ruby devops guys, which is…
what?
your last: - 'you can strive to be unique in a one-person class that is more immediately profitable and scalable than a commodity programmer.' seriously?
if this guy wants to become an expert in the technologies he mentioned then why is that so wrong? if he enjoys programming and has the drive to get to the top then he should absolutely go for it. smart employers are going to appreciate and see value in someone that has spent thousands of hours coding.
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#67"Want to get trained on Ruby at a .NET shop? Implement a one-off project in Ruby. Bam, you are now a professional Ruby programmer — you coded Ruby and you took money for it. (You laugh? I did this at a Java shop. The one-off Ruby project made the company $30,000. My boss was, predictably, quite happy and never even asked what produced the deliverable.)" Unless an employee actually gets permission to do this, this mak…
Technically, the employee would not be fired right away.
He or she, however, would be red flagged for close observation by being put on a Performance Plan.
Basically, a PP is required to legally fire you. For example, if you had a bad record of coming in at a consistent time, they could put you on a PP. In this PP (which you would have to sign as a condition of further employment), there would be a contract for coming in between 9 and 9:15 for the next thirty days, with a small margin of forgiveness. PP are used to document that you have behaved poorly or acted wrongly in the corporate context. Once you are put on a PP, it is a prelude to a firing. You can successfully get out of a PP, but it is stressful.
For the hypothetical Ruby programmer in the Java shop, the PP would probably involve something insidious like LOC.
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#68Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're letting other people determine your worth using their limited domain vocabulary and their suboptimal pattern matching abilities. A .NET programmer is a highly paid commodity, but a commodity all the same. A high-tech value creator who thinks and talks in terms of profit drivers and cost sinks is not going to ever be a commodity. Rather than striving to be the top of your class (e.g. Ruby devops guys, which is…
what? your last: - 'you can strive to be unique in a one-person class that is more immediately profitable and scalable than a commodity programmer.' seriously? if this guy wants to become an expert in the technologies he mentioned then why is that so wrong? if he enjoys programming and has the drive to get to the top then he should absolutely go for it. smart employers are going to appreciate and see value in someone…
Think back to the now-wealthy Googler who wrote the code that 97% of $BILLIONS in revenue passes through. Do you think that person introduces him/herself as "C++ programmer with 10+ years of industry experience"?
You'll get better work on better terms if you focus on results rather than tools, even if your technical skillset is fundamentally the same as another dev with a poorer sales pitch. You're finding the best mutually beneficial business arrangements out there rather than just pursuing a predefined career track.
Edit: Mastery is its own reward. If you want to become an expert at a particular corner of technology, go ahead. Just remember to explain your work to others in terms that aren't unnecessarily limiting.
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#69>> ”What is your previous salary?” is employer-speak for “Please give me reasons to pay you less money.” Answer appropriately. What is the proper approach to answering this question?
"You're better situated to judge my worth to your company than I am. What do you think I should be paid?" Counter with better offer.
My other stock answer: "As a matter of professional courtesy, I decline to comment on specific policies of previous employers. You should appreciate this, after all, someday someone will be asking about yours."
Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer
#70Enjoyed the post. Do programmers really not know who Peter Drucker is?
Allow me to rephrase:
Aside from being a guy who played fast and loose with facts and was awarded a medal by a president who couldn't be bothered with facts, what solid contribution did this Drucker guy make to the art and science of programming?