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Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

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Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#31

Post by randomdata »

On the not calling yourself a programmer part: It may be a local thing, but the term engineer was usurped by government to essentially refer to someone who does things by the book. As such, engineer has come to mean someone who has trouble seeing the bigger picture and won't break some rules to deliver something amazing.

Obviously that is not true of many engineers, but the damage to the term is already done (again, perhaps only locally). I find it hard to take programmers who call themselves engineers seriously as a result, even if they are really good at what they do. My advice is not call yourself an engineer if you develop software. You want to use a title that makes people think you do amazing things.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#32

Post by mechanical_fish »

cperciva wrote: post #21
mechanical_fish wrote: post #15

Okay, I guess as someone with hard-won expertise I'm duty-bound to take slight exception to this line: Put a backpack on and you can walk into any building at any university in the United States any time you want. First, the nitpicking: Technically you can't get into Harvard's excellent libraries without actually (a) being a Harvard student, or (b) working for Harvard. (And if you're a programmer, I'm not sure which…

They also won't let you into the labs with just a backpack. In a literal sense, no, that's not enough. In a practical sense, if you're serious about doing research and have the necessary background to be able to do good research, finding a faculty member who will invite you to join their group as an unpaid "research assistant" is trivial.

This is literally true.

But I come out of experimental physics, semiconductor engineering, and biology, where "the necessary background to be able to do good research" generally translates to "you have the kind of lab skills training that you can only get by getting a Ph.D. in a lab just like ours, plus you know how to write (or at least contribute vital portions of) successful grants to pay for the equipment you'll be using and the reagents and parts and live animals that you'll be consuming as you work". The thing is, lab benches are expensive, outlandishly expensive in many cases, so you'll have to earn your spot at that lab bench by outcompeting whoever else might want it. The net result is that, yes, with a modicum of talent you can probably always be an unpaid research assistant, but the practical difference between that and a full-time career in research is just a few thousand dollars in salary. ;)

(Or you can learn to build scientific equipment out of hardware found on the side of the road. This can work well, if you choose your field carefully.)

Now, in a field like math or CS where adding you to a research group may require only the occasional spare chair to park you in and a modest 5% increase in the coffee budget: Absolutely, you can dabble in university research as much as you want. This is one of the charms of such fields. Didn't Erdös run his entire career out of spare chairs in other people's offices and apartments? And, of course, MIT is legendary for the excellent work done by people hanging around Tech Square snarfing up spare CPU cycles.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#33

Post by angelbob »

mechanical_fish wrote: post #18
credo wrote: post #8

>>"Programmer" sounds like "anomalously high-cost peon who types some mumbo-jumbo into some other mumbo-jumbo." If you call yourself a programmer, someone is already working on a way to get you fired. I call myself as a programmer because I enjoy programming and do a lot of programming as part of my job. It is unlikely that I'll get fired because I run the (tiny) company I work for :). and customers seem to like the…

Once you run the company it doesn't matter what you call yourself. That is probably a great topic for another essay, assuming PG hasn't written it already. It might matter what you call the company or the product , however, since that is the brand that the people who pay you are seeing. Programmers are so literal. Let me try and translate: When Patrick says "don't call yourself a programmer" he isn't necessarily sayi…

Right. I might say "I'm a computer programmer", but I usually say it right after "me and five other guys track everything about all video plays for ESPN.com" or a rough equivalent.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#34

Post by mikeknoop »

daviddaviddavid wrote: post #29

How jaded. Sounds rather like a "Guide to Success in High School" written by the guy that graduated with perfect grades but got his ass kicked every day. Well, not everybody gets their ass kicked every day. I absolutely cringe at the idea of a bright-eyed young programmer becoming prematurely jaded based on somebody else's experiences. "This post aspires to be README.txt for your career as a young engineer." Definite…

Please back up your claims.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#35

Post by rewind »

"Want to get trained on Ruby at a .NET shop? Implement a one-off project in Ruby. Bam, you are now a professional Ruby programmer — you coded Ruby and you took money for it. (You laugh? I did this at a Java shop. The one-off Ruby project made the company $30,000. My boss was, predictably, quite happy and never even asked what produced the deliverable.)"

Unless an employee actually gets permission to do this, this makes him incredibly selfish, and is a good way to get fired (and deservedly so), no matter how good he is.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#36

Post by randomdata »

bryanh wrote: post #20
psykotic wrote: post #11

> If you call yourself a programmer, someone is already working on a way to get you fired. If you work at a place like that, I feel sorry for you. Even the owner of my company lists himself on Twitter and his blog as just Programmer at RAD Game Tools. Besides being the sounding board for us when we have problems and ideas, he still writes more code than most of us can regularly muster.

Perhaps taken in context one might have read it as "if you describe your sole value as the ability to write code, someone is already working on a way to get you fired".

A programmer, to me, is someone who is familiar with the entire process of software development. From gathering requirements, to designing interfaces, to writing code, to delivering and supporting the final product. I believe the term normally used to refer to someone who can only write code is code monkey.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#37

Post by angelbob »

daviddaviddavid wrote: post #29

How jaded. Sounds rather like a "Guide to Success in High School" written by the guy that graduated with perfect grades but got his ass kicked every day. Well, not everybody gets their ass kicked every day. I absolutely cringe at the idea of a bright-eyed young programmer becoming prematurely jaded based on somebody else's experiences. "This post aspires to be README.txt for your career as a young engineer." Definite…

I'm sorry to hear that. Well, you can become jaded in the normal course of events if you prefer.

When that happens, remember that this article exists. It's good for tactics later, when you realize you can use it.

I've been programming professionally for 15 years, and programming at all for almost 25 (now I feel old). I'm a fantastically skilled, experienced and versatile programmer, even for that experience level. I am, by any reasonable metric, highly successful. I work on very interesting problems. I work for a cool yet profitable company. I do code and not management, and I otherwise get the computer programmer dream job. I may be jaded by long experience, but I'm not bitter and I have no reason to be bitter.

Patrick is totally, completely, 100% on the money with this article. Everything he says is true. Remember where you saw this so you can come back to it in a few years.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#38

Post by gizmo »

kooshball wrote: post #19

>Actual grooming is at least moderately important, too, because people are hilariously easy to hack by expedients such as dressing appropriately for the situation, maintaining a professional appearance, speaking in a confident tone of voice, etc. Your business suit will probably cost about as much as a computer monitor. You only need it once in a blue moon, but when you need it you’ll be really, really, really glad t…

The point is to dress appropriately, not to wear a suit every day. Some companies expect you to show up in a suit and some don't. So figure out which and act accordingly. If your interviewer is wearing flip-flops then you clearly overdressed.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#39

Post by mechanical_fish »

angelbob wrote: post #33
mechanical_fish wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once you run the company it doesn't matter what you call yourself. That is probably a great topic for another essay, assuming PG hasn't written it already. It might matter what you call the company or the product , however, since that is the brand that the people who pay you are seeing. Programmers are so literal. Let me try and translate: When Patrick says "don't call yourself a programmer" he isn't necessarily sayi…

Right. I might say "I'm a computer programmer", but I usually say it right after "me and five other guys track everything about all video plays for ESPN.com" or a rough equivalent.

See, there you go, that is awesome.

Re: Don't Call Yourself a Programmer

#40

Post by Sukotto »

ycapply2011 wrote: post #17

>> ”What is your previous salary?” is employer-speak for “Please give me reasons to pay you less money.” Answer appropriately. What is the proper approach to answering this question?

What the others in this thread said.

If that doesn't work, be prepared to give a range of "total comp" where the low end is base salary and the high end is the total cost of all your benefits + salary + bonus

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