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Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

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Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#61

Post by larryett »

jmyeet wrote: post #7

The real lesson of mall walking is that it came about because in many places there's literally nowhere else you can walk. Non-Americans may be vaguely aware that America has a sickness of car dependency but may be unaware of the extent of it. I present to you the 26 lane Katy Freeway in Houston, Texas [1]. Non-Americans may not realize just how large these cities are geographically. I believe one end of the Houston m…

It is absurd to say there is no place to walk in the suburbs. People just walk on the suburban streets. Most suburban streets are obviously not the highway. I just got back from a walk in the suburbs and passed 5 other people out for their morning walk. I don't think I even passed a car.

My impression of mall walking is that it was largely used by people when the weather was bad.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#62

Post by throwawayForMe2 »

tomcam wrote: post #31

> Anderson, sitting in for a day, observes the largely male population commenting on ladies’ dress and appearance, reading the paper, and, in one case, getting served coffee by a woman acting as mall “wife.” Wut Couldn’t find references on the Web… what is a mall wife?

Have you heard of a “work wife”?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Work_spouse

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#63

Post by phil21 »

octokatt wrote: post #49

The lesson I'm taking away from this is if the U.S. wanted to support its increasing senior population and improve the loneliness epidemic [1] _and_ obesity epidemic, buying up malls and retrofitting them into public community spaces would be a huge step in the right direction. [1] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/loneliness-an-epidem...

Very mixed feelings about this sort of thing.

On one hand, it's practical and seems to immediately offer a minor amount of relief for a very small number of people. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good and all that.

On the other hand, the urban design that caused the social fabric of the country to fall apart will remain, causing the problem to continue unabated. You need to fix this before the people get old to have any meaningful wider impact on the population.

Seems like some form of surface-level McCivics vs. actually building up lasting civic institutions that can endure and strengthen the community throughout all life phases.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#64

Post by phil21 »

refurb wrote: post #14
jmyeet wrote: post #7

The real lesson of mall walking is that it came about because in many places there's literally nowhere else you can walk. Non-Americans may be vaguely aware that America has a sickness of car dependency but may be unaware of the extent of it. I present to you the 26 lane Katy Freeway in Houston, Texas [1]. Non-Americans may not realize just how large these cities are geographically. I believe one end of the Houston m…

This is a bizarre take. Most suburbs I’ve seen is actually amazing for walking in. Sure if there is no sidewalk it sucks, but if you walk where people live usually there is a nice walking path, minimal traffic, lots of families around. I’ve lived in dense urban centers and walking can suck with the crowded sidewalks, always having to cross streets with cars, the noise. People aren’t walking in malls because of car cu…

> People aren’t walking in malls because of car culture. Usually they walk in malls because it’s too damn hot/cold outside.

People (most) are walking in malls entirely due to car culture. No one where I live in Chicago is going to the mall to walk - because they walk every day just by default to get things done.

When you use a car to go literally everywhere, you don't have that exercise baked in. It's difficult to commute here and walk less than a mile a day, usually much more. When I lived in the suburbs this might be measured in hundreds of feet.

Very few people go walking for the sake of it, regardless of location or weather. If you're not walking on a daily basis simply for practical reasons - odds are you don't walk regularly at all.

The rest is subjective - but I highly prefer "pleasure walks" in the city as well. After a month or two in the suburbs you've seen literally everything there is to see within a 1 mile radius of your home, and it almost never changes. A living city is a much different experience, and it's rare a walk won't result in some novel discovery or meeting a neighbor. This personally motivates me walking new routes far more than the endless sterile lawns in the suburbs.

Not to mention how insanely anti-pedestrian many suburban populations are - you will absolutely be harassed unless you are on designated walking trails in my experience. I did live in one inner-ring suburb that was a far better experience, but I feel most here would consider that to be light urban vs. suburban.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#65

Post by hoppyhoppy2 »

occz wrote: post #54
hoppyhoppy2 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in northern New England, a lot of mall walkers chose it not because we have too many freeways or lack bike paths, hiking areas, or nature trails, but because walking outdoors can be unpleasant in the dark, frigid, snowy, and often-slippery depths of winter. An icy path may not be a huge deal for someone my age, but the risks are greater for an older person falling from a standing height (e.g.: one in three…

>Growing up in northern New England, a lot of mall walkers chose it not because we have too many freeways or lack bike paths or nature trails, but because walking outdoors can be unpleasant in the dark, frigid, and often-slippery depths of winter. An icy path may not be a huge deal for someone my age, but the risks are greater for an older person falling from a standing height (e.g.: one in three adults age 50+ dies…

Those infrastructure improvements sound great, don't get me wrong, but walking in a snowstorm in windy 10-degree-Fahrenheit weather would still be considered unpleasant by a lot people even with good plowing and lighting. (I hike and run all through winter, but some people just want a comfortable place to walk.) Maybe climate catastrophe will "help" "solve" that issue, but in the meantime I think a lot of folks around here will continue to walk in malls and gyms when it's cold out.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#66

Post by starkd »

phil21 wrote: post #63
octokatt wrote: post #49

The lesson I'm taking away from this is if the U.S. wanted to support its increasing senior population and improve the loneliness epidemic [1] _and_ obesity epidemic, buying up malls and retrofitting them into public community spaces would be a huge step in the right direction. [1] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/loneliness-an-epidem...

Very mixed feelings about this sort of thing. On one hand, it's practical and seems to immediately offer a minor amount of relief for a very small number of people. Don't let perfect be the enemy of good and all that. On the other hand, the urban design that caused the social fabric of the country to fall apart will remain, causing the problem to continue unabated. You need to fix this before the people get old to ha…

Building up lasting institutions is only going to happen from the ground up, starting at the local level. I tend to doubt it can successfully be imposed from the top down - especially not by the government.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#67

Post by starkd »

micromacrofoot wrote: post #55
octokatt wrote: post #49

The lesson I'm taking away from this is if the U.S. wanted to support its increasing senior population and improve the loneliness epidemic [1] _and_ obesity epidemic, buying up malls and retrofitting them into public community spaces would be a huge step in the right direction. [1] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/loneliness-an-epidem...

or we could build our cities and towns so they are pleasant to walk around in!!!

Most of them were pleasant to walk around in at one time!!!

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#68

Post by feet »

octokatt wrote: post #49

The lesson I'm taking away from this is if the U.S. wanted to support its increasing senior population and improve the loneliness epidemic [1] _and_ obesity epidemic, buying up malls and retrofitting them into public community spaces would be a huge step in the right direction. [1] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/loneliness-an-epidem...

We could even turn malls into arcologies, walkable and highly social housing and amenities

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#69

Post by occz »

hoppyhoppy2 wrote: post #65
occz wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Growing up in northern New England, a lot of mall walkers chose it not because we have too many freeways or lack bike paths or nature trails, but because walking outdoors can be unpleasant in the dark, frigid, and often-slippery depths of winter. An icy path may not be a huge deal for someone my age, but the risks are greater for an older person falling from a standing height (e.g.: one in three adults age 50+ dies…

Those infrastructure improvements sound great, don't get me wrong, but walking in a snowstorm in windy 10-degree-Fahrenheit weather would still be considered unpleasant by a lot people even with good plowing and lighting. (I hike and run all through winter, but some people just want a comfortable place to walk.) Maybe climate catastrophe will "help" "solve" that issue, but in the meantime I think a lot of folks aroun…

>Those infrastructure improvements sound great, don't get me wrong, but walking in a snowstorm in windy 10-degree-Fahrenheit weather would still be considered unpleasant by a lot people even with good plowing and lighting. (I personally hike all through winter, but some people just want a comfortable place to walk.) Maybe climate catastrophe will "help" "solve" that issue, but in the meantime I think a lot of folks around here will continue to walk in malls and gyms.

The key to this is that there's no 10F snowstorm every day. It's perfectly feasible to optimize for the case where it's a simple and pleasant snowy day.

I don't think the climate catastrophe is likely to remedy the problem of unpleasant weather up north, unfortunately. It's liable to just get more extreme.

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