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Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

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51–60 of 108 posts

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not an actual picture of the road in the article. I'm also not sure one should count the feeder or access road as a part of the freeway. If you can't go freeway speeds it's probably not a freeway.

I counted 40 lanes in that picture!

I think that photo might not be of a real place - here is a discussion trying to locate it:

https://www.reddit.com/r/whereisthis/comments/iss0vj/where_i...

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#52
post #38
post #33

> After police officers removed elderly Korean Americans from a McDonald’s in Flushing, Queens — managers claimed the group overstayed their welcome, buying only coffee and french fries Before you judge McDonald’s… this is a thing in Asia. Talk privately to someone who works in a Shanghai Walmart, IKEA, and so on, and you will learn that massive groups of these freeloading aunties can shut down any business with a fr…

Since when job should be fun? Who cares they are rude? It's not like there is some law you must be nice to employee, especially if they are bothering you. Lived in China for years and yes, IKEA in Beijing is occupied by families enjoying bedrooms and living rooms, sleeping there, hanging there, but I've never seen it as issue and never seen any conflicts, that's just how it works there and I can understand these peop…

If the elders and families on the periphery can’t catch a break at capitalism’s expense in PRC then we are done.

> Doesn’t business ear enough money from the food I order that they need to rob me on drinks as well?

Exactly!

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#53
post #14
post #7

The real lesson of mall walking is that it came about because in many places there's literally nowhere else you can walk. Non-Americans may be vaguely aware that America has a sickness of car dependency but may be unaware of the extent of it. I present to you the 26 lane Katy Freeway in Houston, Texas [1]. Non-Americans may not realize just how large these cities are geographically. I believe one end of the Houston m…

This is a bizarre take. Most suburbs I’ve seen is actually amazing for walking in. Sure if there is no sidewalk it sucks, but if you walk where people live usually there is a nice walking path, minimal traffic, lots of families around. I’ve lived in dense urban centers and walking can suck with the crowded sidewalks, always having to cross streets with cars, the noise. People aren’t walking in malls because of car cu…

Nice places for a walk: the forest, a river bank, a park, walkable (zero car) city center. Poor places for a walk: anywhere there are cars, anywhere that is indoors. I get that there are places with inhospitable climate where it's too hot even in a shady forest or too cold even with the right clothes. Those places just don't have truly nice places for a walk.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#54
post #7

The real lesson of mall walking is that it came about because in many places there's literally nowhere else you can walk. Non-Americans may be vaguely aware that America has a sickness of car dependency but may be unaware of the extent of it. I present to you the 26 lane Katy Freeway in Houston, Texas [1]. Non-Americans may not realize just how large these cities are geographically. I believe one end of the Houston m…

Growing up in northern New England, a lot of mall walkers chose it not because we have too many freeways or lack bike paths, hiking areas, or nature trails, but because walking outdoors can be unpleasant in the dark, frigid, snowy, and often-slippery depths of winter. An icy path may not be a huge deal for someone my age, but the risks are greater for an older person falling from a standing height (e.g.: one in three…

>Growing up in northern New England, a lot of mall walkers chose it not because we have too many freeways or lack bike paths or nature trails, but because walking outdoors can be unpleasant in the dark, frigid, and often-slippery depths of winter. An icy path may not be a huge deal for someone my age, but the risks are greater for an older person falling from a standing height (e.g.: one in three adults age 50+ dies within 12 months of getting a hip fracture).

This sounds to me like a matter of infrastructure - street lights and plowing + puttin gravel on walking infrastructure.

>I imagine people in very hot climates appreciate being able to exercise in air conditioning, and you can also schedule it with others (say, every Tuesday and Thursday at 10am) regardless of inclement weather. But I would guess a lot of it has been supplanted by going to the gym (there are a lot more gyms around here than there used to be).

And this also sounds to me kind of like a matter of infrastructure - planting trees to provide shaded paths and cooler microclimates could remedy this issue. This one is less solvable though on account of the ongoing climate catastrophe, but it can at the very least be improved.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#55

The lesson I'm taking away from this is if the U.S. wanted to support its increasing senior population and improve the loneliness epidemic [1] _and_ obesity epidemic, buying up malls and retrofitting them into public community spaces would be a huge step in the right direction. [1] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/loneliness-an-epidem...

or we could build our cities and towns so they are pleasant to walk around in!!!

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#56
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is simply not true, and it was less true in the 80's/90's.

There might be two separate assertions under discussion. One is that it is typically difficult in a suburb to get to a landmark destination (e.g. to the grocery store, to the gym, to a coffee shop, and to work) just by walking, without a car. This is true. At the same time, suburbs with low rates of crime are typically nicer to walk around without a destination in mind. It’s typically easier to go outside for a jog o…

Yeah, people tend to take the worst suburb setup and compare it to the best city setup. The reality is, there's a lot in between.

I live on the coast in a suburb about a 1/2 hour outside the downtown area. The long edge of my suburb is banked by a river with neighborhood supported docks, and large green spaces along the river. There's a grocery store at the entrance to the neighborhood (along with cleaners, bars, etc...) that people walk and ride bikes to. There are other large green spaces where kids play sports plus there's tennis and basketball courts, golfing, pools, etc...

I'm not saying where I live is perfect, but as I started with, people like to take the worst mid-west suburban hell and compare it to the best city like NYC. When I see these discussion what I hear is all the more reason why people are migrating to the coasts.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#57
post #29

The lack of large plazas and walkable streets in the US really bums me out. I wish I was European, there I said it.

Europe is pretty small - just pick a small subset of the US that meets your needs and enjoy it. The US has a huge variety. If a small section is good, you don't need the rest to change.

There aren’t many small sections of america that are walkable like europe, and the small areas that are happen to be very unaffordable

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#58

The lesson I'm taking away from this is if the U.S. wanted to support its increasing senior population and improve the loneliness epidemic [1] _and_ obesity epidemic, buying up malls and retrofitting them into public community spaces would be a huge step in the right direction. [1] https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2018/loneliness-an-epidem...

or we could build our cities and towns so they are pleasant to walk around in!!!

A fantastic group in this space is strongtowns (.org). The essays on their site have really opened my eyes to the particularities of American infrastructure which make life in those places ... suboptimal. I'm particularly fond of the "stroads" essay https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2017/10/30/the-stroad, and share the term with people IRL, who also seen tickled by it.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#59
post #16

The lack of large plazas and walkable streets in the US really bums me out. I wish I was European, there I said it.

I’ve walked all over US cities. Hell I’ve walked from one side of SF to the other.

Same. But those parts of SF tend to be super unaffordable.

Re: Lessons from the golden age of the mall walkers

#60
post #14
post #7

The real lesson of mall walking is that it came about because in many places there's literally nowhere else you can walk. Non-Americans may be vaguely aware that America has a sickness of car dependency but may be unaware of the extent of it. I present to you the 26 lane Katy Freeway in Houston, Texas [1]. Non-Americans may not realize just how large these cities are geographically. I believe one end of the Houston m…

This is a bizarre take. Most suburbs I’ve seen is actually amazing for walking in. Sure if there is no sidewalk it sucks, but if you walk where people live usually there is a nice walking path, minimal traffic, lots of families around. I’ve lived in dense urban centers and walking can suck with the crowded sidewalks, always having to cross streets with cars, the noise. People aren’t walking in malls because of car cu…

I'm not sure this is a universal experience.

The suburbs my family lived in were quite hostile towards pedestrians, as the lack of sidewalks had two primary outcomes:

1. People just rarely walked

2. As a result of 1, drivers became unaccustomed to pedestrians and adjusted to a driving style that assumed no pedestrians

I absolutely don't really fault the drivers too much, as it's reasonable -- the road is for cars and in most situations with roads it's not expected to have pedestrians except at crosswalks.

But it's not universal that suburbs are pedestrian friendly. Especially growing up in the midwest, even suburbs with sidewalks were not very pedestrian friendly. Despite laws requiring maintenance and upkeep of the sidewalks (including snow shoveling during winter), it's not feasible for able-bodied persons to walk across many suburbs because of how awful the upkeep of the public sidewalks are, neverminding people persons with disabilities or injuries.

The heat is inconsequential -- where I live now, since about May it's been 34º or higher real temperature (feel is close to 40º or higher), and yet everyone is accustomed to it and still out and walking. It's easily changeable, but the main difference is the city has many walkable elements, many small parks with shade, public fountains to cool off, and so on. Getting to a shop to get a cheap bottle of water (or beer, why not?) is a matter of walking 50 meters in any direction; the last US city I lived in, even though it was better than _many_ US cities, it was still almost 2 Km to get to the nearest store that had anything small to drink/refresh yourself (and you had to cross an 8 lane road that fed into I5, so it was pretty busy).

My takeaway as a US native is that US cities really did get ruined by the influence of car culture, and the cities are exceptionally hostile towards pedestrians. Even the quaint suburb-style cities ( < 500k population) which advertise their closeness and small town feel are ostensively pedestrian hostile just due to poor planning which prevents you from getting around by foot or by reliable, cheap, and safe public transportation.

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