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In defense of cryptocurrency

blog.cryptographyengineering.com

491–500 of 578 posts

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those things produce joy, dry clothes, and steel. Crypto produces... scams? We're facing climate collapse and need to choose what we burn electricity on very very wisely.

Honestly, I'd be in favor of banning Christmas lights.

The Christmas lights number is a little deceptive because it is comparing instantaneous draw and not yearly consumption. When all (US) Christmas lights are on, it might very well be equal to the draw of Bitcoin or Argentina; on a yearly basis, it's about 2-5%, depending on what estimate you are using. Christmas lights just aren't on for more than a week or two each year, by and large, and usually only for a few hours of each of those days.

On a yearly basis, (US) Christmas lights use more electricity than Montenegro or El Salvador.

It doesn't say anything about the worthiness of Christmas lights, but it makes them a much smaller gain if you eliminated them.

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#492

> In other words, transaction reversibility is not about the ledger, but rather about the transaction rules that a currency uses. A reversible currency requires that someone anoint this trusted party (or trusted parties) and that they use their powers to freeze/burn/transact currency in ways that are at odds with the recorded owners’ intentions. once you have a trusted third party, though, you no longer need permissi…

Too bad power corrupts. All fiat currencies so far keep devaluing. If governments want to spend more than the rest of the economy, they should finance it via taxation, not inflation, which erodes people's savings.

Funny how inflation numbers just dropped which show it still running hot and bitcoin started immediately tanking along with the stock market.

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a benefit to building it on the blockchain. I can look at the USDC contracts and see that privileged users have the ability to freeze the USDC in my account. I can look at the DAI contracts and see that they do not. Good luck getting visibility into the back-end processes of web2 applications. Even if they publish the source on github, there's no way to verify what they're running

> Good luck getting visibility into the back-end processes of web2 applications "Smart" "contract" are as invisible to the average user as the backends of web2 applications (or any other applications for that matter). The authors of these "contracts" routinely create buggy contracts because the code is complex [1] But sure. You can definitely look at impenetrable code written in an esoteric language for an equally es…

Absolutely, the average user won't be looking at the contracts (and yes there will be exploits). All software is buggy, the open-ness just gives malicious users a path to find exploits (and also bug bounty hunters incentive to responsibly disclose). With traditional software, the attackers are often large actors and we may never hear about all the exploits.

But think about where faith is being placed in traditional software vs. decentralized software: with traditional software, you rely on a whistleblower inside the company, or a government agency to expose corruption, malpractice, maliciousness, noncompliance, or incompetence.

In a dapp, there are also knowledgeable watchdogs who are incentivized to expose scams/fraud, or report bugs (I'd wager there are more responsible disclosures in crypto than exploits by bad actors).

Knowledgable researchers keep casual users informed of developments, and give layperson explanations of how dapp works (and Cunningham's law dictates that they're likely to be called out if their explanation is incorrect).

Either way, people are placing their trust somewhere. Traditional applications basically rely a lot on "security by obscurity" which doesn't make them truly secure. And many users enjoy truly transparent applications.

The biggest problem with crypto for the average person is that it's incredibly hard to assess risk in order to develop risk-appropriate strategies and expectations for interacting with crypto. And it can also be hard to get a straight answer when discussing risks (good signals are surrounded by lots of noise). That's why I think that rather than writing off the industry as a whole, those of us who have more insight into the technology (and the risks) should be advising less technical participants to be incredibly cautious, not to approach crypto outside of the top two as an investment without incredible diligence etc. (though, like the author, I'm very much opposed to bitcoin due to proof of work)

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Christmas lights consume more electricity than Argentina." "Wash dryers consume more electricity than Argentina." "Steel foundries consume more electricity than Argentina." What is the point? Comparing global electricity usage of a single sector and comparing it to the usage of a whole country is meaningless.

Those things produce joy, dry clothes, and steel. Crypto produces... scams? We're facing climate collapse and need to choose what we burn electricity on very very wisely.

There is some good efficiency to be gained on clothes dryers.

US clothes dryers account for 60 billion kWh / year and by and large rely on direct heating elements. Switching to a heat pump design could apparently cut that in half: https://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/pt_awards/SEDI_Fact_S...

It's the old saying about no silver bullets. There's a lot of small but meaningful low hanging fruit we could take advantage of that begins to add up in a big way.

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#495

This is a genuine question. Is there a defense of cryptocurrencies that doesn't follow the pattern of, "yes, that is indeed true, however here is an edge case or counterexample which either doesn't exist yet, or is not in wide use so it's not actually a problem"? Every article or comment defending cryptocurrencies has followed this pattern and it isn't convincing to me. I'd love to have my mind changed, but when ever…

This is also how almost any technology can be dismissed.

Great. But let's agree that the opposite is also false.

Rather, a technology should be judged against its present merits. As an extreme example:

A: I have cancer - just a few months yet to live with the currently developed treatments.

B: That's actually not a problem because cancer treatments might get better in the future.

Should A feel great instead? No. The converse is that any technology can be accepted. Future merits or lack of future merits are simply not a justifiable measure by which a current technology should be judged. It's as absurd. Just as absurd as saying, "You should like natto today because some day natto might taste better."

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#496
post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Market value comes from a decentralised oracle. I don't want to write here the most famous decentralised oracle, but right now, it provides price information to various defi protocols why not also the market value...

Market values aren't generally quantifiable though. Two houses on the exact same street might be valued slightly differently because one has some original features, or one has historic significance. Unless your decentralised oracle factors in all or the unique aspects of an area and a property, it's not an accurate representation of the value, and as I said before market valuation isn't something that dictates a purc…

Let me tell you something obvious. The credit system is doomed to fail, and it is not working. This blockchain thingy, defi, NFTs, now we might have a chance to build a better financial system. And yes, those two houses may be valued differently, but trust me, Some of the smart-ass people I know are working in crypto like there is no tomorrow. I'm sure we will solve this minor issue on the way.

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Good luck getting visibility into the back-end processes of web2 applications "Smart" "contract" are as invisible to the average user as the backends of web2 applications (or any other applications for that matter). The authors of these "contracts" routinely create buggy contracts because the code is complex [1] But sure. You can definitely look at impenetrable code written in an esoteric language for an equally es…

Absolutely, the average user won't be looking at the contracts (and yes there will be exploits). All software is buggy, the open-ness just gives malicious users a path to find exploits (and also bug bounty hunters incentive to responsibly disclose). With traditional software, the attackers are often large actors and we may never hear about all the exploits. But think about where faith is being placed in traditional s…

> But think about where faith is being placed in traditional software vs. decentralized software: with traditional software, you rely on a whistleblower inside the company, or a government agency to expose corruption, malpractice, maliciousness, noncompliance, or incompetence.

Indeed.

> In a dapp, there are also knowledgeable watchdogs who are incentivized to expose scams/fraud, or report bugs

Indeed. Moreover, they are incentivised to actively seek out and exploit those bugs because there are literally no avenues of recourse.

> Traditional applications basically rely a lot on "security by obscurity"

No. No they don't.

> The biggest problem with crypto for the average person is that it's incredibly hard to assess risk in order to develop risk-appropriate strategies and expectations for interacting with crypto.

Indeed. Whereas with "traditional applications" you have anything from regulations to courts in case something goes wrong.

> those of us who have more insight into the technology (and the risks) should be advising less technical participants to be incredibly cautious

Yeah. Yeah. Those who actually have insight into technology clearly and openly call that almost all crypto projects are scams. And that "smart" "contracts" are neither smart nor contracts and run obscure code whose authors often don't know how it works.

The people who pretend to be knowledgable and advising post things like "I can look at the contracts and see " perpetuating the myth that this is true.

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Microsoft stock is basically fungible whereas houses and most other real-world property very much are not.

But for houses, you could use an NFT to represent digital ownership of the underlying physical asset.

> could use an NFT to represent digital ownership of the underlying physical asset

So, you arrive at "your" property with a 20x20 pixel jpeg that you call your ownership rights (even such a jpeg would be prohibitively expensive to store on blockchain, but whatever).

So, you arrive, and there's someone else living there. They don't want to move out, no matter how much you wave your jpeg around. What does your NFT give you in this case?

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's why many people is working on it now. If you compare old smart contract with new ones, you will see that things are slowly getting fixed. For e.g., you could literally send NFTs to any address (including a smart contract address) which make things stuck forever. Now there's a safe way to transfer things which check whether or not it is a valid address. And this became the de facto standard for almost any N…

Exactly. So when you write something like this: "instead we trust code that is emotionless, non-judgemental and consistent." what you're really saying is: "we trust a bunch of programmers to write perfect code" when even those programmers cannot understand the code they write: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31692704

In an ideal world, things will be build to facilitate the trust, we don't have to trust any programmer at all.

The trust in put on the code itself which not one but all of us agreed upon. Today, we don't have the tools to allow people to actually understand it but it doesn't mean that we won't in the future. Abstraction layers will be built.

Of course this is an optimistic speculation. I'm personally not attached to crypto in anyways but I'm excited about innovative opportunities that it enabled.

Re: In defense of cryptocurrency

#500
post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Harms like: the aforementioned energy usage equivalent to Eastern Europe, scams wiping out billions on the regular (e.g. the absurd Luna pyramid scheme which collapsed the other week), facilitating vast drug dealing and consumption at huge detriment to poor countries and many users, etc.

Don't forget the preferred payment system for ransomware, among cryptocurrencies many technological achievements.

Sometimes incentives can be negative. Let your fear of ransomware guide your backup strategy. In the face of an adversarial condition, one should build contingencies as opposed to arguing that the technology is wrong.
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