Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

historytoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 140 posts

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#31

Post by [deleted] »

throw93232 wrote: post #28
planetis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no negotiating to be done over one's sovereign rights. Once again going too far over any logic can explain but let me be clear about it. Every country has the right to defend its territory, that's article 2 paragraph 4 of the UN charter. The Paris Peace treaty does not concern Turkey, as Turkey did not sign it. Turkey remained neutral in WW2, declaring war against Germany in late February 1945, hence the tit…

..and Turky will start again shipping refugees from its "sovereign" territory. This clawn show is very expensive for both sides. Make a deal!

[deleted]

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#32

Post by kkfx »

dotancohen wrote: post #17
kkfx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss is actually deeply split: German-speaking think they are the best, they have to rule, their Calvinist vision is the best etc, French-speaking populations they are the best, their social and democratic model is far superior to the raw and sore German-speaking Calvinist one, Italian-speaking populations think they are the best, a bridge between French and German groups, French-speaking ones are just hippie with t…

As you described Switzerland I immediately thought of Lebanon. Lebanon has the added complication of extraordinary interest of its two neighbors in Lebanon's internal affairs. In your opinion, could that be the difference between the successful Swiss implementation and the largely failing Lebanese implementation?

It's hard for me to have tangible opinion on something as complicated as the Middle-east but surely part of the causes are exogenous, at what level and mechanism I can't tell. Surely another relevant part was and still is food: Swiss needs import, but for being well, in mere self-sufficiency they can survive, Lebanon can't, it import I think nearly all foods they needs and that's a big issue. Surely energy production is another: Swiss have much hydro and was able to develop a certain level of nuclear, Lebanon have nothing of them. Again a big tie that allow foreign countries to interfere much.

I do not prize Swiss at a whole, I'm talking just in terms of defense and Democracy...

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#33

Post by planetis »

throw93232 wrote: post #28
planetis wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no negotiating to be done over one's sovereign rights. Once again going too far over any logic can explain but let me be clear about it. Every country has the right to defend its territory, that's article 2 paragraph 4 of the UN charter. The Paris Peace treaty does not concern Turkey, as Turkey did not sign it. Turkey remained neutral in WW2, declaring war against Germany in late February 1945, hence the tit…

..and Turky will start again shipping refugees from its "sovereign" territory. This clawn show is very expensive for both sides. Make a deal!

In my opinion, it will stay as such, no side can afford the loss of income from tourism. It is an attempt to turn a worsening situation into an opportunity. Erdogan a defunct leader, might face jail time in case he looses the elections, thus he will do everything he can to cling to power. The unknown is how desperate he is and how far he's willing to go.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#34

Post by causi »

smcl wrote: post #27
_vufv wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when are political comments like this one welcome on HN. I tend to share some of your views, but that's unimportant. HN can't be allowed to become a cesspool that the rest of the Web is.

To add - I don't think the issue is that something political is being discussed on HN. We talk politics all the time here, and even heated comments don't always get flagged or downvoted. The issue here is that this is a fairly benign and interesting story, but this person has used it as an opportunity to air a grievance on something which, to be honest, doesn't seem related other than occurring in roughly the same ar…

We talk politics all the time here, and even heated comments don't always get flagged or downvoted.

Heated comments aren't flagged and downvoted, but unpopular ones are. HN just has a very unique profile of what it considers unpopular opinions that aren't the same as American political issues. There are plenty of downvote squads who will mass-flag submissions they don't like. The comments on such submissions will often be even-headed discussions with a wide range of views represented, all the while the sub is going from flagged to vouched over and over.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#35

Post by mrunseen »

planetis wrote: post #24
throw93232 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey has a point though, relevant treaty says those islands should be demilitarised. If Greece is not happy about that, it should renegotiate and sign new treaty. Dismissing someone greavances as "warmongering" will just escalate war.

Turkish EFES 2022 military exercise concluded just a day ago and it's scenario was landing on an enemy island. The pesident demanded that Greece demilitarize its islands in the eastern Aegean, otherwise face disaster. If that's not a clear military threat then what could it be? Source: https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1186488/erdogan-issues-thr...

Aegean sea has seen a lot of military exercises with both Greece and Turkey, I remember the Medusa-10 exercise with Greece, France, Egypt and UAE (and yeah, these are the sides which clash against Turkey-backed official government in Libya) NATO Allied Land Command (in Izmir) tweeted the exercise with hashtags: #WEARENATO and #StrongerTogether. I would normally say such a weird timeline we live in but it has been like this for decades.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#36

Post by dotancohen »

kkfx wrote: post #32
dotancohen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you described Switzerland I immediately thought of Lebanon. Lebanon has the added complication of extraordinary interest of its two neighbors in Lebanon's internal affairs. In your opinion, could that be the difference between the successful Swiss implementation and the largely failing Lebanese implementation?

It's hard for me to have tangible opinion on something as complicated as the Middle-east but surely part of the causes are exogenous, at what level and mechanism I can't tell. Surely another relevant part was and still is food: Swiss needs import, but for being well, in mere self-sufficiency they can survive, Lebanon can't, it import I think nearly all foods they needs and that's a big issue. Surely energy production…

Very interesting, thank you. I did not realize that Lebanon must import so much food. They have a very fertile country, possibly the most fertile percentagewise in the Middle East, I wonder why they must import so much food.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#37

Post by smcl »

planetis wrote: post #30
smcl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add - I don't think the issue is that something political is being discussed on HN. We talk politics all the time here, and even heated comments don't always get flagged or downvoted. The issue here is that this is a fairly benign and interesting story, but this person has used it as an opportunity to air a grievance on something which, to be honest, doesn't seem related other than occurring in roughly the same ar…

The issue at hand is both relevant to the articles meaning and content but it is also identical to the mentioned geographic location. In ancient Greece people refusing to talk about politics where called idiots, meaning a person not partaking in public affairs.

Ah come on, you have to admit that Erdogan's recent posturing has nothing to do with an article about a manual on ancient counter-siege tactics.

And it's a good thing I explicitly said political talk was fine, otherwise someone might think you were calling me an "idiot", right? :D

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#39

Post by smcl »

causi wrote: post #34
smcl wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add - I don't think the issue is that something political is being discussed on HN. We talk politics all the time here, and even heated comments don't always get flagged or downvoted. The issue here is that this is a fairly benign and interesting story, but this person has used it as an opportunity to air a grievance on something which, to be honest, doesn't seem related other than occurring in roughly the same ar…

We talk politics all the time here, and even heated comments don't always get flagged or downvoted. Heated comments aren't flagged and downvoted, but unpopular ones are. HN just has a very unique profile of what it considers unpopular opinions that aren't the same as American political issues. There are plenty of downvote squads who will mass-flag submissions they don't like. The comments on such submissions will oft…

You're right that things can get downvoted and flagged according to personal tastes (mention a figure like Marx or Tito without explicitly condemning them and watch the downvotes roll in for an idea of what the prevailing personal tastes here are) but my point is that overall politics is not at all off the table here, even when it's not totally civil.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#40

Post by dotancohen »

IG_Semmelweiss wrote: post #25
dotancohen wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you described Switzerland I immediately thought of Lebanon. Lebanon has the added complication of extraordinary interest of its two neighbors in Lebanon's internal affairs. In your opinion, could that be the difference between the successful Swiss implementation and the largely failing Lebanese implementation?

Very easy: One is founded on libertarian ideals. The other one is founded on state-mandated pluricultural sectarianism. In switzerland, plurality is represented via multiple presidents and they can represent any canton. In lebanon, plurality is state-mandated: must have a president that is of X religion. A prime minister of Y religion. This is "representative". The swiss has very strong traditions on union out of nec…

  > They basically were friendly with all neighbors seeking to influence
  > internal policy. For example, all public works depend on a
  > sponsor (saudi, qatar etc), to fund the project.
I had no idea! Was this because they were unable to collect taxes from the populace? Where could I read more.

  > When? I think Black september sealed the fate of lebanon. They had no internal
  > unity to reject the palestinian refugees like Jordan did (via authoritarian methods).
Was there no way to handle the palestinian refugees without authoritarian methods? Honest naive question, most people who voice an opinion on the subject seem to have extremely one-sided and narrow viewpoints, your comment demonstrates otherwise. I would appreciate a candid opinion from someone who sees the larger picture.
Post reply on HN