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No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

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21–30 of 140 posts

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#21

I'm disappointed the article didn't have a link towards a copy of the book; at this point I think most copyright have expired, no? Here's one I found: http://demonax.info/doku.php?id=text:how_to_survive_under_si...

Thank you so much for this link. It was a very interesting read.

I especially liked his guidelines and best practices for passwords usage and a kind of early form of 2FA.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#22

Quoted post unavailable.

Turkey has a point though, relevant treaty says those islands should be demilitarised. If Greece is not happy about that, it should renegotiate and sign new treaty. Dismissing someone greavances as "warmongering" will just escalate war.

There is no negotiating to be done over one's sovereign rights. Once again going too far over any logic can explain but let me be clear about it. Every country has the right to defend its territory, that's article 2 paragraph 4 of the UN charter. The Paris Peace treaty does not concern Turkey, as Turkey did not sign it. Turkey remained neutral in WW2, declaring war against Germany in late February 1945, hence the title of "the evasive neutral", showing it's opportunism. Turkey's president has no legal basis to ask for the demilitarization of Greek islands. It is the Greek islands' strong army presence that deter him from any thought of military operations against them. Lastly every island over 3 nautical miles distance over the coast of Anatolia, according to the treaty of Lausanne belongs to Greece.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#23

Quoted post unavailable.

Turkey has a point though, relevant treaty says those islands should be demilitarised. If Greece is not happy about that, it should renegotiate and sign new treaty. Dismissing someone greavances as "warmongering" will just escalate war.

Afaik "militarization" here refers to permanent Naval bases and such in which case, no, Turkey doesn't have a point at all.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#24

Quoted post unavailable.

Turkey has a point though, relevant treaty says those islands should be demilitarised. If Greece is not happy about that, it should renegotiate and sign new treaty. Dismissing someone greavances as "warmongering" will just escalate war.

Turkish EFES 2022 military exercise concluded just a day ago and it's scenario was landing on an enemy island. The pesident demanded that Greece demilitarize its islands in the eastern Aegean, otherwise face disaster. If that's not a clear military threat then what could it be?

Source: https://www.ekathimerini.com/news/1186488/erdogan-issues-thr...

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#25
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss is actually deeply split: German-speaking think they are the best, they have to rule, their Calvinist vision is the best etc, French-speaking populations they are the best, their social and democratic model is far superior to the raw and sore German-speaking Calvinist one, Italian-speaking populations think they are the best, a bridge between French and German groups, French-speaking ones are just hippie with t…

As you described Switzerland I immediately thought of Lebanon. Lebanon has the added complication of extraordinary interest of its two neighbors in Lebanon's internal affairs. In your opinion, could that be the difference between the successful Swiss implementation and the largely failing Lebanese implementation?

Very easy:

One is founded on libertarian ideals. The other one is founded on state-mandated pluricultural sectarianism.

In switzerland, plurality is represented via multiple presidents and they can represent any canton.

In lebanon, plurality is state-mandated: must have a president that is of X religion. A prime minister of Y religion. This is "representative".

The swiss has very strong traditions on union out of necessity (to face external threat).

Lebanon has no tradition of unity, it is a state unified effectively out of fear (and a bastard child of french palestinian mandate).

The swiss culture of unity is long: they worked 800+ years to establish their union and it was carefully balanced over many iterations of conflict, even internal ones.

Lebanese culture of unity is very weak. They basically were friendly with all neighbors seeking to influence internal policy. For example, all public works depend on a sponsor (saudi, qatar etc), to fund the project. Money buys influence. Imagine if FL depended on Venezuelan treasure to build roads. Very weak internal unity.

Lebanon was only the switzerland of the middle east because it was the most free of countries in the region. But the regional bar is very low. As it turns out, that only gets you so far.

And time ran out for lebanon... a while back:

When? I think Black september sealed the fate of lebanon. They had no internal unity to reject the palestinian refugees like Jordan did (via authoritarian methods). That permanently and irrevocably set them on the path they are today.

In summary, calling lebanon the switzerland of the middle east is a romantic idea for the lebanese that lived thru a somewhat prosperous but short time period of 15 or so years. Nothing suggested it could be long lasting. It was always an empty vessel. A student that cheats on every exam, will eventually get caught.

The rest as they say, is history

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#27
post #19

Quoted post unavailable.

Since when are political comments like this one welcome on HN. I tend to share some of your views, but that's unimportant. HN can't be allowed to become a cesspool that the rest of the Web is.

To add - I don't think the issue is that something political is being discussed on HN. We talk politics all the time here, and even heated comments don't always get flagged or downvoted.

The issue here is that this is a fairly benign and interesting story, but this person has used it as an opportunity to air a grievance on something which, to be honest, doesn't seem related other than occurring in roughly the same area. Tangents are fine IMO if they're "if you liked that story, check this...", but if they're just trying to shoe-horn in a rant about some provocative issue that could be crossing the line

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Turkey has a point though, relevant treaty says those islands should be demilitarised. If Greece is not happy about that, it should renegotiate and sign new treaty. Dismissing someone greavances as "warmongering" will just escalate war.

There is no negotiating to be done over one's sovereign rights. Once again going too far over any logic can explain but let me be clear about it. Every country has the right to defend its territory, that's article 2 paragraph 4 of the UN charter. The Paris Peace treaty does not concern Turkey, as Turkey did not sign it. Turkey remained neutral in WW2, declaring war against Germany in late February 1945, hence the tit…

..and Turky will start again shipping refugees from its "sovereign" territory. This clawn show is very expensive for both sides. Make a deal!

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#29
post #19

Quoted post unavailable.

Since when are political comments like this one welcome on HN. I tend to share some of your views, but that's unimportant. HN can't be allowed to become a cesspool that the rest of the Web is.

Is there such a thing as an apolitical post?

I don't think the expression of a political perception is a thing that is problematic. What is problematic is when it becomes polemic. Anybody who knows the region an has been in Greece, Turkey, Bulgaria, Macedonia knows that there is a lot of conflict potential in that region which hardcore nationalists on all sides of geographic and language borders. All while they share a lot of common culture in terms of food, music (although every side claims they have been the ones inventing it).

My own perception as someone who has been in the region is that Turkish nationalism is indeed stronger and more visible than e.g. Greek or Bulgarian nationalism, but maybe I just have not been to the right regions in my 20+ trips to Greece.

For that matter I like Turkey as well. They have incredible subcultures, Istanbul is a great city, or the beautiful lake Adana with it's kind people.

I myself come from a region with strong tendecies of border disputes (Austrian-Slowenian-Italian border) and I am truly aware of how impossible and stupid it can be to draw a political border into an area where you have two or more minorities on each sides, because in daily lives and in lived culture those people are closer to each other than to the "great" nations that have an interest in marking these borders boldly.

Saying nothing in face of conflict can be just as political as saying something.

Re: No Army? No Problem: Defending the Home Front in Ancient Greece

#30
post #27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since when are political comments like this one welcome on HN. I tend to share some of your views, but that's unimportant. HN can't be allowed to become a cesspool that the rest of the Web is.

To add - I don't think the issue is that something political is being discussed on HN. We talk politics all the time here, and even heated comments don't always get flagged or downvoted. The issue here is that this is a fairly benign and interesting story, but this person has used it as an opportunity to air a grievance on something which, to be honest, doesn't seem related other than occurring in roughly the same ar…

The issue at hand is both relevant to the articles meaning and content but it is also identical to the mentioned geographic location. In ancient Greece people refusing to talk about politics where called idiots, meaning a person not partaking in public affairs.
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