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Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

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Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#111

Post by ia »

CodeMage wrote: post #99
ia wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the type of person you're looking to hire (say, for a porn site...), not sure why you wouldn't do this. Assuming, again, that you aren't breaking any laws. Not sure what point you were trying to make. Sarcasm doesn't translate well in writing...

I daresay it translated well enough for a couple of people already. The point I was trying to make is that the goal of a job ad is to attract talent. The job ad in question fails at that goal, because the cultural implications will drive away talent. To be fair, it's not a job ad that fails here, it's the culture that came up with that job ad. All in all, you might be right in that they might have put "cultural fit"…

Saying that the alternative is "a stiff and sterile ad" is a fallacy of false dichotomy.

fair enough. to clarify--"a stiff and sterile ad" is the only type of add that won't alienate any possible subgroup.

the goal of a job ad is not simply to "attract talent". it's to attract the right kind of talent. to that end, a job ad that emphasizes culture is one way to look for it. these guys made a choice, and it looks like their (imo) poorly-worded job ad isn't being well received by the majority of people on hn. but unless we know that no suitable candidates resulted from it, i don't think we can claim it a failure.

To be fair, it's not a job ad that fails here, it's the culture that came up with that job ad.

agree, in the sense that if people react adversely to this job ad, they would have a similar reaction to the company culture.

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#112

Post by mikeryan »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #107
mikeryan wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? The third google result for "brogrammer" is this: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=brogrammer

1. Programmer who...frat boy...calling everybody "bro" 2. A programmer who looks like, acts like, or is a bro. 3. A popular, cool, or otherwise normal person who has become intrigued by the fun of programming. 4. a bro who somehow learned to program All of these seem to agree with what I said about it being bro + programmer and not itself about gender.

All of these seem to agree with what I said about it being bro + programmer and not itself about gender.

Try looking up the term "bro" on there http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro

Obnoxious partying males who are often seen at college parties.

An alpha male idiot.

a usually white young male

Stupid white trash guys in the 909 with lifted trucks, wife beaters, shitty music

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#113

Post by mzbridget »

rprime wrote: post #88
ia wrote: post #69

maybe they are going for cultural fit, first and foremost. if you were offended by this job advert, it's likely you wouldn't be a good fit. why hide company culture by writing a stiff and sterile ad? i'm not saying what they did was good or bad, unless they are actually breaking laws in the post--then it's bad. other than that, if you don't like the way they phrased things, don't apply.

Exactly my thoughts, I really like that they actually exposed their cultural thoughts on this one, I hope to see this kind of trend in job postins more and it really makes me want to join that respective company. On the other hand I don't understand, why, most of you, as males are really getting mad about this? Why do you feel offended? If you have a female programmer friend, ask her about this and make her post thei…

We do have a problem with this. We aren't whining. I asked some male friends about this just now and they think its shameful. It basically reads: "We are looking for male programmers, females need not reply." Yeah, just stick us back into the secretarial pool.

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#114

Post by tmh88j »

While I do agree that it was not professional nor would I have posted it, I feel like many of you guys are taking it personally.

I was involved in greek life during my undergrad and we used to joke around about the "bro" lifestyle because we were all far from it, yet outsiders associated us with it simply because we were in a fraternity. That's what made it so funny to us; while other "frat bro's" would be out partying at 1am on a Friday, all of the engineers and CS guys in my fraternity would be in a computer lab.

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#115

Post by mzbridget »

natrius wrote: post #66
mattmanser wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is my way of flagging an unflaggable post. Hell, I love memes, Reddit, drinking, partying, etc. But is that a professional or appropriate job advert for HN? Do we want to be a community which actively cultivates a 'no girls allowed' policy?

"Do we want to be a community which actively cultivates a 'no girls allowed' policy?" That's not fair. An unwise attempt at humor isn't actively cultivating such a policy. It may be inadvertently fostering such an environment, but so many comments are busy casting aspersions on the job poster without addressing that issue.

The subtle comments DO cultivate such a policy. Sexism in its worst form isn't overt - it is the small comments that are harmful.

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#116

Post by sciurus »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #32
felideon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please google the term "brogrammer". You are defending the post (or playing devil's advocate) by implying a meaning that is not really the currently held inferred meaning. (As far as I'm aware.)

Explain. I can't find any definition of "brogrammer" that isn't a portmanteau of "bro" and "programmer". And "bro" is not a gender-specific term any more than "milkman".

http://www.quora.com/Brogramming/How-does-a-programmer-becom...

The first piece of advice is "Attire: Polo, tight so the chicks can see how defined your muscles are".

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#117

Post by sciurus »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #32
felideon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please google the term "brogrammer". You are defending the post (or playing devil's advocate) by implying a meaning that is not really the currently held inferred meaning. (As far as I'm aware.)

Explain. I can't find any definition of "brogrammer" that isn't a portmanteau of "bro" and "programmer". And "bro" is not a gender-specific term any more than "milkman".

http://www.quora.com/Brogramming/How-does-a-programmer-becom...

The first piece of advice is "Attire: Polo, tight so the chicks can see how defined your muscles are".

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#118

Post by jessedhillon »

ia wrote: post #87
mattmanser wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason there's a law against it is because bigots that still exist keep women from attaining equality and that's bad, not the other way around. It is in itself bad. You have a strange moral compass to me. I know it's fun to be laddish when you're at college and uni, but cultural fit can often be a polite way of saying 'Hey, I'm a bigot, women are stupid and I'm not employing them above the level of secretary!'. I…

Can you explain your first sentence? I'm not sure what you're trying to say. I'm not defending bigotry/sexism/etc. Hopefully, you didn't take my comment that way.

Your original comment was to the effect of 'things are bad if they are illegal, but otherwise they're not.' He's calling you out on your sense of morality because whether a thing is right or wrong does not, to most people, derive from it's legal status.

Stealing would still be wrong if it were legally acceptable, which some forms arguably are.

Re: Ask HN: Is brogrammer a sexist term?

#119

Post by Dylan16807 »

mikeryan wrote: post #112
Dylan16807 wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Programmer who...frat boy...calling everybody "bro" 2. A programmer who looks like, acts like, or is a bro. 3. A popular, cool, or otherwise normal person who has become intrigued by the fun of programming. 4. a bro who somehow learned to program All of these seem to agree with what I said about it being bro + programmer and not itself about gender.

All of these seem to agree with what I said about it being bro + programmer and not itself about gender. Try looking up the term "bro" on there http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bro Obnoxious partying males who are often seen at college parties. An alpha male idiot. a usually white young male Stupid white trash guys in the 909 with lifted trucks, wife beaters, shitty music

I don't know what to say about urban dictionary. There seem to be at least three distinct insulting stereotypes in addition to the definition that's close to 'buddy'.
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