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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#981

Post by zaarn »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #978
zaarn wrote: post #927

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're designing such a connector, I'm sure you'll have the car manufacturers on board immediately. After all, your connector is better. Not only a tiny bit better, it's much better. The EU will obviously be happy to include your better connector, provided that old cars can use it too via an adapter and new cars can use old connectors via an adapter. Then they can without issue transition to the new connector with…

Unfortunately, bureaucracy usually does not act as fast and as well as your comment assumes.

The committe that handles the Radio Equipment Directive has been fairly reasonable in their reaction time to newer technology coming out. It's not the full blown comission or council, after all.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#982

Post by liminvorous »

elif wrote: post #974
stouset wrote: post #961

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have literally never seen or heard of a Lightning plug or port "getting bent or broken". However I have heard of the hidden-male-inside-of-female port of on-device USB-C ports breaking at which point your device is trash.

Well my anecdotal experience is exactly opposite yours, so let's reference the Apple product page as data instead: "Apple’s lightning-cable product page contains over 2,300 negative reviews of the lightning cable, with an overall rating of 1 out of 5 stars"

I assume that's mostly complaints about the cable insulation rather than the connector.

Lightning connectors do have the advantage you can safely stick a toothpick in them to remove lint, I don't know if lint building up inside the socket is a problem specific to lightning though.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#983

Post by tremon »

llaolleh wrote: post #952
tomp wrote: post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This argument would sound less hollow if there weren’t two existing superior (from a user experience perspective) alternatives already on the market. Apple’s Lightning (thinner than USB-C) and MagSafe (safer than USB-C for charging laptops… so glad Apple is transitioning back to it for M2 Airs)

They can make both. One for the standard and the other for their own. Or engineer their new port and ship an adapter/extra cable.

I don't think they can. The legislation explicitly mandates usb-c as the device port. Sure, Apple can engineer their own proprietary-to-usbc adapter and ship it with their phones, but they will no longer be allowed to use a non-usbc port on the phone itself.

From https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/6988... , page 6:

Device-side connector: the included devices would have to be equipped with a USB-C receptacle on the device side (as described in the European standard EN IEC 62680-1-3:2021) and, in cases of charging power lower than 60 watts, be rechargeable with cables that complied with the same standard

Then on page 8, the latest expansion of scope:

Included devices: a larger range of small and medium-sized devices with power delivery up to 100 watts would be included under the scope of the directive, including e-readers, low-powered laptops, keyboards, mice, earbuds, screens, printers, portable navigations, smartwatches, personal care devices and electronic toys

Note the personal care devices: looks like this is going to include electronic toothbrushes and electric razors.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#984

Post by tremon »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #972
wbsss4412 wrote: post #948

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it mostly protectionism? There are currently three different fast charging standards, Tesla’s, CCS, and Chademo, and a vast need for improvements in charging infrastructure. If you don’t have a common standard, you end up with a fragmented network that caps everyone’s utility. Imagine if ICE cars could only get gas from certain types of stations, it’s madness.

> How is it mostly protectionism? Seriously? The clear leader for a decade has been Tesla, which is based in the US. Chademo also has a lot of traction and is dominant in Japan and parts of east Asia. CCS is popular in Europe (along with Tesla). The EU mandated that all must use CCS, which has never been dominant in terms of technology or market share. It's blatant protectionism.

Are you saying that there already was a large, established CCS production base in Europe at the time the standard was introduced? Otherwise, what were they protecting?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#985

Post by tremon »

nickpp wrote: post #790
GuB-42 wrote: post #732

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also, the internet itself.

Funny enough, France's failed internet, the Minitel would probably be the solution pushed today by the EU. The Internet won on the free market, through its own merits. No politician intervention necessary. Even if plenty tried to capture the glory (information superhighway…)

Do you have any credible sources to base that claim on, other than "let's paint the government as idiots"? Did you know that TCP/IP was based on that other "failed" french network, Cyclades?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CYCLADES

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#986

Post by tremon »

paulmd wrote: post #777
layer8 wrote: post #720

Earlier quoted context omitted.

…which wastes energy and reduces battery life. Great innovation.

it's always interesting to me that people ignore the ecological impact of cables. If you break four cables over the life of the phone from plugging/unplugging, and that results in 2 or 3 additional Amazon Prime trips to deliver your cables, how does that compare in terms of environmental impact to wasting 5 additional watts for the 1 hour a day you charge your phone? (and don't tell me everybody uses Amazon Prime day…

WhyTF do you need to order your cables from Amazon Prime instead of using the corner shop?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#987

Post by tremon »

midasuni wrote: post #724
Barrin92 wrote: post #649

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who needs breakthrough innovation for a charger? It's like the C++ programming language, I just want it to work everywhere. Programming languages have been designed by committee just fine.

Ok. Go back 5 years and standardise on the ubiquitous usb-mini — usb-a solution. Why does my next phone need a charger? I’d be happy with wireless charging — especially if I have a 3.5mm socket in the phone too.

What do you mean with "go back 5 years"? You're aware that things were already standardized on USB Micro-B in 2009? This is just an update to the existing situation, with one slight but important difference: while under the previous MoU Apple was still allowed to buck the trend, this new legislation will force Apple to fall in line. For the rest of the industry, nothing will change.

In 2009, the Commission facilitated a voluntary memorandum of understanding (MoU), signed by major producers, that aimed to guarantee interoperability between chargers and mobile phones on the EU market. The MoU resulted in a significant reduction of available charger types and a convergence to USB Micro-B connectors on the device side: while there were more than 30 proprietary chargers on the EU market in 2009, by 2012 (a year after the MoU started to apply), nine in ten new devices supported the USB Micro-B connection.

(from https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2021/6988...)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#988

Post by mitchdoogle »

leadingthenet wrote: post #506
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

> Let's say the USB consortium releases USB-D with input from Apple, Google, and many other stakeholders [...] If you have to make such an argument, you've already lost. Innovation, particularly disruptive and / or breakthrough innovation, does not happen by committee, no matter how many times over history people tried deluding themselves into thinking that it does. So no, it's not fine.

One of the companies can continue to do research into new cable technologies, and when they've found something that is amazing they can present it to the committee for approval as the new standard. The committee is not there to innovate, it is there to ensure that everyone is using the same thing, which is a benefit to (most) consumers.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#989

Post by BenjiWiebe »

ciupicri wrote: post #686
nocoolnametom wrote: post #633

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In order to talk to my friends, family, and coworkers I need to have the following apps installed and running: Slack, Teams, Telegram, Signal, WhatsApp, Google Chat/Hangouts/Allo/Whatever, FB Messenger, Discord, Twitter, etc. It'd take a pretty strong argument to convince me that this is so much more productive and allows for more innovation than the old days when the spec for things like Email, HTTP, IRC, XMPP allow…

I'm willing to bet that your friends and family wouldn't be happy if the European Union would mandate using IRC everywhere. Heck, why not go further and stick to the good old ntalk [1]. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk_(software)

ntalk is for me the most pleasant non-in-person way to communicate.

Let's please go back to ntalk!

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#990

Post by newaccount74 »

maccard wrote: post #7

The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc…

> There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices

That's not quite correct. The Nintendo Switch and the Switch Dock works with some Macbook chargers, and all you need to do is read the small print on the devices.

The Macbook chargers list the supported voltages & currents on the outside (in very small light grey text, but it is there), and the Switch has the supported voltages and required currents printed on the back. It's confusing because the Switch Dock needs a different voltage & current than just the Switch itself, but if you read the fine print on the devices you can see if they are compatible.

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